Dave Parker Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hi everyone, as you can see from the pictures I have part of an old belt operated forge blower. All that has been done so far is opening it to see what was left inside and a very mild cleaning. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Because of the condition of the blower, I would not worry about damage to "an antique". Whatever you do will be an improvement. Anther option is to rig up a handle going to a pulley wheel, and a belt going from that pulley wheel down to the pulley on the blower. You could even turn a flat pulley for the rod on a handle from a block of wood, and run a flat belt between the pulley wheels. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Pein Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 You absolutely can't just put a crank on it. My buffalo 200 goes thru 2 sets of gears to get the RPMs needed. You will need a drive pulley - and if you want it to be hand cranked, you will probably want to step it up twice. I have never seen one like this (in person), but it looks to me like that thing is made to bolt to the underside of the forge and the 'other one' is the ash dump. let us know how it turns out. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 another way you could use it would be to add a small pulley to the drive shaft and get some parts from an old treadle sowing machine table and make it treadle powered, would be easier than making it hand cranked probably :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Parker Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Excellent ideas, thanks everyone. I did experiment on blade shapes and tolerances using cardboard and a rope. I should have taken pictures it might have won some money on one of the videos shows. The cardboard “blades” were fastened with zip ties and the rope wound around the pulley and yanked-lawn mower style. I got a good blast of air but I think Cross Pein is right; a hand crank will not turn it fast enough. It is going to need a series of gears to step it up and down until I work this out. I’m going to try using bicycle wheel rims and a large belt next. Once I have the size worked out, I think I can make this baby earn her money. Next time I promise pictures. This thing might start looking like a tinker toy blower before I get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 looks to me it was a treadle type. you look to need a big wheel to the little. you could put a handle in the middle of the large though more effort would be required. casing looks good, rivet new blades would be awesome. and a bush seems to be missing for the belt driven end so drill up another. if you didnt want to do the hand thing another way as said, would be put a motor ac or dc, dc might be easier to control. or use the gearing out of an old mountain bike, actually the whole back half of one, take the rear tyre off etc, as an idea for the treadle system or ragnarok's, go hunt an treadle. good project though:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) and sorry not to answer the blade question, usually straight , and final balance with spots from the mig if you like. and car thermal fan size from a small pully. Edited September 6, 2009 by double_edge2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 yeah old sowing machines with treadle tables pop up a lot and are really cheap normally, you can get them for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crij Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Dave, Looks a lot like the blower under by Buffalo Rivet forge. I also had to replace the blades on mine. I just used duct work tin, both sides were folded back about 1/2 inch and the tip was cut curved to within about 1/4 inch of the case. The folded wings goes towards the direction of rotation to cup the air. I mounted mine with small bolts with stop nuts (the ones with the nylon insert). You will not be able to spin the blower fast enough with a handle on the shaft. My blower has a ~26" diameter drive wheel that the flat belt goes around. The drive wheel spins slow enough to be matched to a handle, even though mine is pawl driven off the pump handle. This drive wheel could be a solid disk of metal or a cast iron wheel from a work cart. With the housing, one end gets a slide gate to catch the ash and clinker, and the other sided gets connected to the forge pan (a cast iron skillet makes a great rivet forge pan, and Cabella sells up to 20" brand new, this is what I used on my Champion 400 to replace the sheet metal pan) Your second photo has it in the right orientation, with the pan above and the ash trap below. This is why there is that cast angle iron on one edge of the blower casting (for a bolt through the pan) Take care, Rich C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Parker Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 Great tips Rich, thanks. I had never considered a cast iron skillet for a firepot. I was going to use a 10 x 10 stainless sink. The replacement blades will come from a couple of chilli cans. I really did not mind emptying them, yummy. Anyway, I think I can visualize what is needed. Your description was excellent. A quick google search and I have a picture of one mounted just as you described it. I’ll experiment with bike wheels and if I get the results I want, I’ll bend up a more traditional wheel. It might be fun to see if I can work out a pump style. One of the guys here in Florida is building a portable forge and we are holding our Florida Artist Blacksmith Association (FABA) meeting at his forge this Saturday. I’m planning to bring both the blower and my make shift firepot to get an experts opinion. If I am too far off, they will help me out. Great bunch of people. If any of you are ever in Florida, there is a FABA meeting every weekend somewhere. Check the site for details: Florida Artist Blacksmith Association, guests are encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crij Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Dave, I'll see if I can get some photos of my forges to give you a few ideas, maybe clarify any questions, you didn't ask. Rich C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Parker Posted September 9, 2009 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Thanks Rich, I would love to see them, especially how the pump handle works and the skillet firepot. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crij Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Dave, Here are my forges. The pump handle is a Buffalo Forge, with an oval pan, roughly 20x28. If you can find one these are great to run because Buffalo used a ball socket for the handle mount, so the smith can pump while standing on either the narrow or wide side of the forge and stay out of the smoke. The pump handle is a replacement I found growing next to the river, and had that great bend. Oh I forgot that the blower is actually driven through a second drive gear as you can see. Both drive wheels are 16" diameter and the gear between the 2 is 1.5". Tonight I will pull the blower apart and get you photos of the impeller. The other one is a Champion 400, which I rebuilt about 1.5 years ago, full cleaning with new bearings. The original pan was totally rotted out and was only a 14 ga ring welded to a 14 ga disk that was to be filled with cement. As I knew I would be traveling with it, I knew that would not last so I started looking for a worn Cast Iron Skillet, but the only ones available were either too good to wreck or they wanted too much for a skillet that was usable for filtration duty. About that time Cabela opened their new store in Hartford, Ct and I stumbled across their 20" CI Skillet (20" just happened to be the size of the original 400 pans) and it fit perfect. Best part of it was that the remaining handle made it easier to carry the forge, one hand on the skillet handle and the other on the frame below the blower. Also it makes a convenient place to hang the fire tools. Something that I stumbled across that works great for forge restoration is the heat shrink tube used for underground/underwater splices. The stuff is about 1/16-1/8 thick and adhesive lined. If you look at the feet of the Champion 400 you will see them there, the ends of the tube was totally rotted. One thing to keep in mind as you shrink the tube, stop about 6" from the tip and leave the tube about 3/4" beyond the end of the legs, now start shrinking the tube from the tip and push the end back into the shrink tube (inside out) and you will get a nice stiff finished end that won't rot or scrape off as you transport it. Rich C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Good morning All Olcarguy activated this past tread "Show me your forge (solid fuel)" and as I was browsing the forges I saw civilwarblacksmith's picture and it seem appropriate to this thread. -grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crij Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Here are the photos of the impeller and a better shot of the gearing. As you can see one of the blades is still original. For some reason I thought the fit was a whole lot tighter between the impeller and the case, must have been thinking of the Champion 400. Hope all this info helps. Take care, Rich C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Parker Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 Thank you Rich, I think that is enough for me to get this puppy running. Our ancestors really knew their stuff. Without those pictures, working out the ratios and gears might have taken quite a while. You have been a big help. On a side note, my wife was checking our some of my favorites, saw a few blacksmith suppliers, and asked so sweetly, why I did not just buy a forge or a blower. I could only offer this little pearl: for the same reason a man doesn’t call a plumber until the water in the basement is two feet deep, sometimes we just have to try. I know all of you understand, I do not need the blower fixed, I need to fix the blower. Next project: build and mount it to a forge. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBellows Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Sheet Iron will work for the blades, just try to get the blades as balanced as possible. As for the gearing, I have seen several blowers that have been adapted by using one of the old hand cranked grinders. These are still readily available at most flea market/junk shops. I have seen the fans and case mounted directly to the gear box, and also a pulley could be used to the existing one on your blower. Show us what you come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 With a little imagination a bicycle or two provides all the gearing you could want for a blower. It's pretty common in 3rd world countries. These pics are from Viet Nam, one is mounted on a wall in use, the other pic is a pile of several hand built forge blowers for sale. I didn't take the pics but I saved them when someone else posted them because I never know when I'll need an idea or inspiration. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Parker Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 It is amazing what a little determination and ingenuity can do. I plan to work on my little project this weekend, I’ll be sure to take a few pictures. After seeing those pictures I have even more motivation. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VernonTuck Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Howdy folks. I happened to find you while googling how to repair / rebuild an antique forge blower. I ran across a discussion with a guy who appears to be doing a similar project. Since I've been twiddling and fiddling with forging for about 10 years I decided to join. Regards. Vernon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wargo New2bs Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Welcome aboard. The site is filled with lots of useful information. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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