bigfootnampa Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 As you might guess one of my projects for today is to make some nails. We've had several threads about the basics and (as the proud owner of four headers now) I am beginning to feel my way past those and refine my techniques and improve my speed. I thought it might be nice to have a more advanced nail discussion. Cover things like specialized nail types/designs, details of tooling, efficiency shortcuts and any other things that can accelerate the learning curve and vault one through the intermediate level. As the OP I will start by saying that the nails that I am making today are for clenching and so are smaller than most I have previously made (I had to make a smaller header for these) and have finely drawn tips, air cooled so that they will clench easily. I made the header and a few examples last night and found right away that having just the right weight of hammer for the heading was a good step in the right direction. The larger hammers tend to allow the head to form more off-center than I prefer and the smaller ones work too slowly so that I lose the heat before I finish. By having just the right weight hammer I can center the head and form it too (it's very inefficient to have to remove a partially finished nail from the header and reheat and rehead it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I would love to see some picture's of your header's and some of the nails you've produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsiler Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Been trying to make nails some lately. Some turn out fair some not so fair. Thanks for the thread Billy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaylan veater Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I too like Wagonmaster would like to see some pictures of both headers and finished nail. Gaylan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Me too. I have a header, that I made, but it just isn't quite right. I demo at an 1845 State historic site and nails are a popular request. Any technical help that can be given would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Okay guys here you go. I made another header today. It is pictured by itself. This time I took the time to forge a hook on the end of the handle so that it would be easier to hang. This is a spike bent at a 90 and then smashed. The first two that I made were spike heads rodded and then upset. I used the mig to eliminate any chance of rattle. The other two were made from spikes also but I used the whole spike for one and a headless spike for the small one. These latter two I upset by bending and smashing. I then drew out the rest of the spikes and used that for my handles. I punch the holes from the bottom side with an oversize round punch up to about 1/4 inch from the top... then I punch through the 1/4 inch layer with a smaller square punch (I knock the plug out from the top). I use my square punch to drift the hole to the proper size (it helps to have a nail made to check the size with). Drift from the back with a tapered square drift so that the top is the smallest part of the hole. Then I brushed them with a brass brush and let them cool and they are ready to work. You can see a few of the nails in the pics and the last pic is of the threshold that I am installing with them (it's in a log cabin dating from the late 1800's, so rustic and handmade are nice fits). I recycled some tongue and groove lumber that we tore out for the threshold material. I left a little of the old finishes peeking through the new. So it is pretty simple and I am getting a little faster and a little better all the time but I have only made around a couple of hundred nails so I have much yet to learn. I want to make a specialized nail butcher hardy that will chop my rods down to twist-off thinness and also start the taper for the point of my next nail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Thanks, Bigfoot. The RR spike idea is a good one. I'm gonna give that a try. I think that with your explanation, I figured out part of my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lumpkins Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 yea ,, BigFoot thanks for the pic's and the info.. those are nice . I have another request, I would love to see some pic's of the old Cabin...LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Thanks, Bigfoot. The RR spike idea is a good one. I'm gonna give that a try. I think that with your explanation, I figured out part of my problem. Try one of the RR bolts with the head cut off and a handle welded on...makes a nice header also I've found that to take a file and put a radius on the top side of the square hole the nails release better..don't get hung up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 The biggest improvement that I would suggest is a Williamsburg style nail making station with a replaceable nail header. This might greatly increase your speed of making the nails:http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f11/nail-heads-off-center-13764/#post127240 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I use coil spring for my nail headers, they'll last longer than rr spike! Also, when I teach, I have my students fuller the stock slightly just below where the head will start---easier for them to taper up to the fuller line and no further. I use a regular swing arm fuller for it. I then cut the nail off about 1/4"+ above the top of the fuller mark when it's time to head it. I should build a fuller with a built in notch just the right size so they can just insert hit turn hit and be on their way---but they do need some learning experiences... Also I've learned with students that having another header a step smaller than the usual one is handy as some will drive the piece all the way through the first one and you can then try to save it by using a smaller one. If a nail gets jammed in the header, grab the shaft in a post vise leaving only a slight gap and then tap down on the header to work it free. Tapping on the nail shaft from below may bend it making it harderr to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglet_74 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I finally had a chance to try to make another one this weekend. I was going to weld some spring steel on top of mild. I found that my makeshift firepot can get hot enough to weld but is not a good welding fire. I need to get some fire brick to make the pot deeper. I get a massive amount of scale buildup. So instead I did a fagot weld. Then I drilled a pilot hole and shaped it with the tang of a round file. Once it cooled I made a handful of nails and it seems to work pretty well. I made another weld on the other end but haven't created the hole yet. I'm waiting to see what size I actually end up at. The nails in the pic start off as 5/16" round rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Clad Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 When making a nail header, use mild steel for the base and forge weld high carbon on the top. The top portion should be rounded or dome shaped. The mild steel base should have a large diameter hole for clearence while the hole thru the high carbon top should be just a little larger than the final width of the top of the nail shank. I usually make the hole thru the high carbon top square since I usually make square shanked nails. The reason for the rounded top is for producing slightly dome shaped "rose head" nails. These are the common type nails made 200 years ago. The nail head itself is square and pyramidal in shape, with a somewhat flat peak and flats on all four sides. The idea is to make a nail in one heat!! Two nails a minute, 120 nails an hour, 960 nails in an 8 hour day!!! While your pounding out one nail, your other nail rod is heating in the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 Since this thread has been revived I will give an update on my personal nailmaking progress. I have broken some of my earliest headers, possibly because I have developed a liking for large headed nails. I am now using heavy leaf springs for my latest (replacement) headers. I have become a bit faster though nowhere near doing nails in a single heat or at nail-a-minute speed. I am okay with that as the quality is my main motivation. I do some nails with very large decorative heads (rustic shaped as I like them). I often make them to specific lengths for the immediate intended application. I have begun to make some of them from higher carbon steels (old hay-rake tines) for better stiffness (I just leave them as-forged HT wise). A significant advance has been achieved by learning to make a hinged cut on the hardy when cutting the nail for heading (I cut from only two [opposite] sides and fold the nail 90 degrees to reheat for heading). This is quicker and easier than cutting on all four sides and leaving a central stem. When I have to clench nails, I will thin the tips for bending with my angle grinder and flap wheel rather than trying to forge them to fit. This is much faster and more accurate and doesn't offend MY sense of tradition much. I often make a few nails while the forge is heating up (before it gets hot enough to tackle my larger projects). I keep these in a small jar of mixed sizes and raid it when I am working on something and just need a few. I will also make a few extras when I am making a batch for some project and they go into this jar also. My nails are beautiful (to me anyway) and powerful! I can make very strong fastenings and repairs with them. Some are used like steel dowels to reinforce joinery (which they do with amazing success). I feel that my nails are usually stronger than modern wood screws (and WAAAaay stronger than modern wire nails). I bought a set of tapered drill bits that I use for predrilling in many cases so that I rarely have splitting problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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