Building a Shop

[Blacksmith Jim]

Howdy Folks!

I've been thinking about how I will set up a shop at home for smithing. I don't really have any adequate, enclosed space now. So I was thinking of building some! I figured early next summer (or spring) I can have someone pour a slab for me. Then construct a simple shop from 4"x4"s and metal siding. I want to have plenty of windows and vents and some big double doors.. I haven't done any real construction before, but I think it would be a lot of fun to do myself. Does anyone have any advice about building a shop? How large of a foot print should I use? (I was thinking 20'x30'??) Any good tips, tricks, suggestions, etc?

[Ten Hammers]

Couple 3 questions. What equipment to you currently have ? Are you planning to use steel truck for deliveries ? Will you have a lift truck in the shop ? Crane, or like most of us, hand carry ? Material handling can be a real pain. Most hot rolled steel is 20' long. 20 x 30 would be my smallest thought. My shop is an old garage and it's 20'square ( outside dimensions). Can't get 20'steel inside really easily + I have to open door to cut steel. Sheet, I cut in half ( 48 w x 48 or 60 long ). Heating and ventilation of course are major thoughts. Rain too (porch roof mebbe off of one door ). Do you plan to use this as a smithy only or have other thoughts ? Let us know.

Ten

[ThomasPowers]

My current shop is 20x30, all steel construction save for the concrete pad and a fiberglass panel for a skylight. No "where did that hot piece of steel go" worries

I have a 10'x10' roll up door at either end for ventilation and a "man door" on the side.

I plan to build a "forge porch" out front of it for the coal forges with only partial sidewalls. The propane forges are welcome in the "clean shop" part...

I'm slowly involved in wiring my shop for 200 amp service with 110 and 220 plugs every 5' around the perimeter and a welder outlet near one of the roll up doors and a triphammer plug up on one of the trusses. Also 5 banks of 8' long fluorescent lighting individually controlled.

Can you extend an eve and put your long steel storage outside under it?

Is security an issue?

Is there a habitat for humanity resale store near you? Where a lot of my electrical components were purchased...

Thomas

[rthibeau]

A general rule of shop construction is to figure out how much room is needed and then build double that. The problem is one of the Laws of Nature: no shop is ever big enough. Having taken that into account, build as big a one as you can. I built a 12'x24' shop initially, then added a 30'x24' extension with concrete slab. A power hammer, gas and coal forge, 4'x8' layout table, wood stove, sanders, drill press, etc all take up a lot of space. I built with 2x4 framing and T-111 plywood siding. Another aspect to consider: ceiling height. Swinging a 10 - 20 foot length of steel around requires headroom as well as floor space. Thomas and Ten gave good thoughts, and as to wiring have outlets overhead in the middle, too, especially over any work table or bench in the middle of the floor - no extension cords in the way then. Keep us posted on progress.

[Blacksmith Jim]

You guys ask great questions are helping me think about great stuff

TenHammers:

I don't really have much equipment yet. I'm relatively young (late 20's) and just starting to acquire things like good tools. A have a few things along the line of a good bench vise, etc.. I figure the shop will have workbenches lining maybe 2 walls. That way I can have bench tool workstations for grinders, etc.. I plan on building a small portable forge this fall / winter. I'll then be able to use the portable coal forge and anvil outside until the shop is ready. Then once the shop is ready, I'll build a nicer, bigger coal forge inside. As well as probably a propane forge, but first I'll start withthe coal I'm planning on taking a welding class at the local community college this next quarter. I'm pretty sure I'll want to pick up a welder to work with as well.

I've thought about truck access and I'm not 100% sure about it. The shop will be in the back of the back yard, and as it is right now, no truck can drive back to it. So that leaves me hand carrying (or using a hand cart) everything. But.... I think we are going to require truck access to pour the slab, so maybe access will be available afterall.. What's the story with the big shop cranes? I've seen them in commercial fabrication shops. Are they prohibitively expensive? How handy are they?

I can definately do porches and overhangs.

The primary function of the shop will likely be acombination of Smithy plus house hold chore / fixit kinda stuff. I was also thinking that I might eventually start to get more tools for wood working as well, since I'll have a shop and everything.. But I don't think I would start acquiring wood working tools for a few years.

Thomas:

The whole "where did that hot piece of steel go" is also one of the reasons I thought that concrete and steel siding made a lot of sense. Much less fire safety worries.

The roll up doors sound like a good option. And I can definately build an overhang and store my long stock out side of the shop. I don't think security will be too much of an issue. We live in a nice, quite neighborhood. I'll just have to be careful to lock the doors so the kids stay out of the shop. I'm not planning on doing any of the wiring myself, I figured I'd bring in an electritian for that But it is good to think about how many outlets I'll need. The one every 5' sounds like good advice.

I'm trying not to think about things like "what if I get a power hammer" because that would all be a ways off. I don't want to plan on everything seeing as how I'm just starting. I figure I'll tackle some of those issues down the line if I stay serious about it.


Phewwwww!!! Long post! Thanks again!

[Nolano]

It would be better to consider things now, and be prepared, then to not, and regret it later. I would make sure there is a wall sturdy enough to put stock racks on, and also that your power grid can provide your shop with enough juice. What area of Eugene do you live in, Jim?

[Blacksmith Jim]

I live out near River Road. I'm not too worried about power issues, I think they should be fine.

[Chris Pook]

I'm just trying to finish off my new shop at home, Had to move in before it was ready (my old lease ran out) and its fun building around the machines.

Give yourself alot of time to build it. Depending on how your finishing it, and how many of your friends actually show up to help its alot of work. My shop is 24x52 with 12' ceilings (i'd go higher next time) fully drywalled 5/8" and insulated. I've been building mine since the beginning of May, mostly by myself, and its just now getting near completetion. I need to do all the small exterio trim/fascia work and finish the electrical. Mines finished fairly nicely on the outside, Red Cedar trim etc just to help with future resale and keep the neighbours happy.

I have the last 12' sectioned off for my wifes photo studio, so my work area is 24'x40' which is a decent size but getting abit squishy now that I have all my machines in there.

Build as big as you can...and double the budget you have figured out

I could of worked in a smaller space, but wanted at least one open spot for a vehicle with area in front to work on it just in case I need to work on something.

[ThomasPowers]

Can you get 3 phase power? most used 3 phase equipment is a lot cheaper than single phase.

You are young---what are the chances you will be moving? You may want to put money in equipment rather than the building if you may move in 5 years. Also sturdy metal shelves that can move with you may be better than built in's

Make sure that there is a seperate storge shed for things like lawn mowers, shovels, rakes, etc---don't clutter up the shop with them! I had an abandoned small school bus moved to my property just for "yard" tools and camping equipment storage.

Thomas

[Chris Pook]

Can you get 3 phase power? most used 3 phase equipment is a lot cheaper than single phase.

You are young---what are the chances you will be moving? You may want to put money in equipment rather than the building if you may move in 5 years. Also sturdy metal shelves that can move with you may be better than built in's

Make sure that there is a seperate storge shed for things like lawn mowers, shovels, rakes, etc---don't clutter up the shop with them! I had an abandoned small school bus moved to my property just for "yard" tools and camping equipment storage.

Thomas

I think the house hold clutter being kept out of the shop is a must do. I told my wife from day one nothing but work related stuff is coming the shop, and that I'd post a sign on the door.

I'm using pallet racking for my shelfing picked up a bunch used at an auction for a reasonable amount of $, I then sheathed the shelves in 3/4" and 1" plywood.

[Blacksmith Jim]

Can you get 3 phase power? most used 3 phase equipment is a lot cheaper than single phase.

You are young---what are the chances you will be moving? You may want to put money in equipment rather than the building if you may move in 5 years. Also sturdy metal shelves that can move with you may be better than built in's

Make sure that there is a seperate storge shed for things like lawn mowers, shovels, rakes, etc---don't clutter up the shop with them! I had an abandoned small school bus moved to my property just for "yard" tools and camping equipment storage.

Thomas

I haven't checked into 3 phase power. I spose I should put that on my list just to be safe. I know I've read some stuff about being able to build converters for it.

I'm not terribly concerned about moving. We kind of just went through a "Should we move or remodel to make the house what we want" phase. We remodeled. We now have a new bedroom, a new bathroom and a new garage. It's me, my fiancee and three kids living in the house. We pretty much plan on living there at least until the kids are out. The youngest is four so I think 10 years is a conservative estimate. We've talked about eventually looking for a place out in the country, but have also talked about staying where we are now for good. I do like the idea of the storage shelves being movable though. Good for 'just in case' and for re-arranging the shop layout down the road.

Camping gear and holiday decorations and extra stuff gets stored in the garage. We have a small shed now for house hold stuff (paints, extension cords, bad mitten sets, etc.. That shed is way to small to smith in, and it's all wood anyway. I think it won't be toooo much of a problem to keep the new shop space reserved for tools and the associated projects.

Thanks again! This is awesome stuff to think about now.

[cheftjcook]

As For the building, I know you mentioned you would like to build it yourself... But have you checked out some of the steel building/garage companies. There are usually adds for them in the back of magazines.
I know of one of them I think it was in PA, makes a kick butt version that is built like the old Army or Marine barracks . Comes in different sizes they put it up on your slab or give you a kit cheaper and you assemble. Kind like a giant tinker toy set. Seriously thay are great, helped a friend put one up for his auto mechanic business. No worries over that lost piece of hot steel and these things can withstand anything mother nature can throw at it!!!
Here are few sites to give you an Idea
Steel buildings, storage sheds, metal buildings by American Steel Span
Steel Buildings, metal buildings, prefabricated storage kits
Steel Buildings, metal buildings, prefabricated storage kits
not sure of cost but I do know if you ask they are always running some kind of "factory direct specials or discounts" and I know budgets get tight with a wife and kids ect...

Just My 2cents worth
Good luck with it Chaos

[Chris Pook]

and the steel building guys always seem to have some that were ordered and deposit paid on them but never got picked up deals...so if you go that route phone them before you pour a slab, they may have a building "close" to the size you need

[ThomasPowers]

Good Luck! I had lived in a house for 14 years and was 1 month from having 15 years in with the company I worked for when they downsized and I ended up moving 1500 miles away for the next job...

A friend called me yesterday and told me about some propanel I could scrounge for my shop extension---I want to build the coal forges a seperate area to help keep the rest of the place cleaner.

Thomas

[Thomas Dean]

I bought the 'U.S. Steel buildings' shop that is 30'x40', too small! hehe. Friends from church helped me put it up and we all had a fun time doing it. I made each one an item once I got the forge up and running and they were very pleased. The only problem is there is no place to hang a chain fall or hoist as there are no trusses/beams. Will have to make an 'A'frame. I framed up the 2 end walls and put regular tin on the back wall and the front wall looks like a building from the late 1800's early 1900's, the old storefront look. I have 12'W x 11'T double doors on each end wall and 3' service doors. the bid doors are like barn doors, open both or 1. Dirt work and slab cost more than the building! I've been in it for approx 4yrs. now.

[Blacksmith Jim]

Thanks for the links to the steel building info. I heard a radio add for a steel building company around here and stopped to think about it for a few minutes. Seems like it is definately worth some time to research that option more. One potential down fall of the side is that it seems like I would miss out on have more customizations to the shop. Like big swing out (or swing up) windows on the sides for ventilation, etc... Just a though, the web sites looked good though!

Thanks again all, I'm always thinking about new stuff when I view this thread.

[Blacksmith Jim]

I think I'd really like to have small vent/windows that swing up and out near the peak of the roof, to encourage good venting. Then large windows that swing out at the normal window height. That way I can really open up and air out the shop if need be.

[Sam Salvati]

I would do like those corrugated roofs, with the little clear sections you can do, but on the walls, so that they go up a wall and over the roof and down the other side. That would be SOME ambient light, of course I would also have to build the shop si the side walls are East to West, to maximise the effect. It would also help during the winter with heating, maybe.

[Leah]

My shop is a steel building that I had a company (here in Louisiana) put up. I have two windows on the north wall and a roll up door on the south wall. I had them put a 3' square exhaust fan at the top of the east wall and I have a ridge vent that I can open or close. The fan is has louvers that blow open when the fan starts and is at the top of a 10' wall. This set up has worked very well for me.

[the_sandy_creek_forge]

I'm working out of 24' x 36' (give or take) pole barn that was built from another recycled pole barn. no insulation , big wood-burning barrel stove , cold in the winter , hot in the summer. I have a double swing out door (for nostalgic purposes) and a big double sliding door on the northwall , a sliding door on the east wall , and a sliding door and man door on the south wall. Sliding doors are between 12 and 16 feet wide , man door is 4x8. Me and my dad built it over the period of about 6 months. I am currently pouring a concrete floor in 4x8 foot sections at a time (plenty of stress relief cracks right?) so it is partial dirt and partial concrete floor. It is on the farm , so no big deals with the smoke, reclaimed metal pile , building code. These are things to think about in town though. I thought the building was plenty big, and it was when it was empty , but it has filled up pretty quick, and i even use an abandoned grain bin for stock storage. The moral of my story is , pour the floor THEN build the building!

[FredW]

I am considering building a new forge shop of post and beam construction and stone. It is a lot of work but since I have access to timber and stone the material will be same as free. I've got three phase running next to the property so I am buying those cheap 3 phase tools. Already got a Baldor 10" pedistal grinder, 2hp, for $50.

I like the stone because it is available and it looks great. It also is very strong and fire proof.

I also got a friend with a sawmill, so the timber is a lot easier to make. It's very expensive if bought but you save in time to construct.

If you got the resources available for any of these I'd go for as big as you can get it. Even if you move it will just add value to the property.

[ThomasPowers]

Didn't Charles McRaven build a post and beam smithy down in Hollister Mo? I remember seeing it and recognizing it from his book "Country Blacksmithing". (if not in Hollister, someplace close.)

Thomas

[Chris Pook]

if you got the land, post and beam is the way to go. big spans, high ceilings and goes up real quick.

[bbb]

do you live in a "home owner association" community? Check on local building codes, too. Around here, we have these all steel " carports" 20 x20 that are fairly cheep, about $800, installed on your slab, that are easy to close in. Spend extra time planning your shop. Before you pour the slab, have your sparky install pvc piping in the slab to put power to the posts, and along the walls, . Dedicate power circuits for ALL fixed equipment( so the power hammer, welder, twister,etc have their own breaker) . Have your plumber put air piping in appropriate places, so you don't have a ton of hoses to trip over. Make an outside area for your air compressor. 3 phase is nice, but a power converter is cheaper. Unless you live in an industrial area , your power provider will charge a fortune to deliver. Check within your group for an electrician, at least for a consultant or for turn key . Licensed electricians make for peace of mind.

[FredW]

I think Charles McRaven did. I'll have to get my book out. I don't have his blacksmithing book but I have his book "Stonework" and I think he mentions it in there.
I kinda like the idea of building a hewn log shop also.

3 Phase is very expensive, the power company here told me $58 per foot but if the lines run by the property they said they would just put transformers on the poles, no charge. Of course, you would still have to run it to your shop then buy all the necessary equipment to get it into and throughout your shop.


Fred Warner