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Hot cut Hardy height?


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I have some log splitting wedges that I am going to make into hotcut hardys. They are kinda long and narrow. Should I cut them down. If I do, should I cut some of the bottom off or some of the top of the wedge off and then reshape a more blunted cutting surface?

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I found it to be more stable when you are hitting it. I am a bit paranoid with my little anvil after seeing photos of anvils broken across their hardie hole and thinking about the leverage of the hot cut decided that shorter was better. Why do you want it longer, are you doing long splits or cutting really thick stock?

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I just thought taller would be more convenient and keep the hammer and hot steel further away from the face of the anvil. Might easier if you had curved or complex material you were trying to cut something off of. Rmcpb, I would definitely reccomend welding on a shoulder on all your hardy tools if there isn't already one forged on. You are right, it's a good way to stress the hardy hole or even break off the heel of the anvil.

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I took a piece of medium-carbon prybar roughly 1-1/4 wide, 2 inches long, 1/4 inch thick and forged a single-bevel chisel edge onto it, normalised, arc-welded it to a piece of 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/8 angle-iron, cleaned up, and painted orange (for 'hot' and 'danger'). I use it in my vice for several reasons: small anvil face, less danger to leave set up, hardy hole is blocked up. It's not pretty (especially with my welding 'skills') but it does the job. See Hofi's blueprint on 'using the hardy' for the reasons why I chose a single-bevel.

I find that if the hardy's too long/tall it is awkward to use and I want maximum control if I'm repeatedly smacking my hand down over a cutting edge...

Edited by matt87
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when I first started I shaped a piece of rebar to make a harder still use it works real well others who used my set up are shocked how well it works. This year I got a piece of wood chipper blade welded a piece of square stock to it works real well. the height should not be critical when you use a harder you do not want to cut all the way through. You should be worried about hitting the hammer face and once the cut is deep enough ringing off the metal. the height of mine is 2-3".

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Generally most hot cuts I have seen are around 2 inches high off the surface of the anvil. As suggested above, making tooling to use in vises have advantages, I make all my tooling to fit in vises so that I don't have to make separate tooling for each anvil.

Also as mentioned above, the longer the hot cut hardy the more leverage against the base of the hardy, necessitating a wider base for proper support.

Another consideration is the height of the cutting edge to the angle of your arms when in use. You don't want tooling to be too high.

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As Unicorn said, cutter height should be high enough to keep the stock above the anvil face but not so high as to hinder the control of the hammer swing.

To solve the wedging effect of the hardie post in the hardie hole, make the hardie post just a bit under size and use a 3x3 inch plate to support the tool. Weld the tool to the top of the plate, weld the hardie post to the bottom. All the force is now on the plate and anvil face and not on the hardie hole.

Another way to avoid the wedging effect in the hardie hole is to weld the hardie post to the side of the anvil too, and if needed an alignment tab. This way the tool rests on the face of the anvil, and the alignment tab keeps the tool from shifting off the face.

That said I have seen a blacksmiths make hardie tools from a piece of 2 inch square, by forming a hardie post to fit the hardie hole, placing the hot stock into the hole and forming the top of the tool. This wedged the hardie post both into the hardie hole and was a perfect fit and match for only that orientation on only that anvil. Turn the tool 90* and it would stand above the anvil face, and not fit properly.

Some smiths use a different hammer when using a hot cut so as not to cut into their smithing hammer with the hot cut, or a missed blow.

BP1007 How to use the Hot Cut

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Are your vices lower than your anvil face then? Or do yoiu have a dedicated vice for using these "anvil"tools in?


Mine's currently between wrist and elbow height with the anvil wrist height. When I move I'll be trying mounting the leg vice about knuckle height for just this reason. If I want an elbow-height vice for filing or sawing I can fit a parallel-jaw vice onto the leg vice or a dedicated mount.
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i have one the same...a wedge turned into a cutoff tool...i left it long and slender, comes up off the anvil about 4-5 inches for sheet, small and wierd shaped jobs i need the height with. i would not pound heavy steel on it though. go the 50mm and a big shoulder.

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As Unicorn said, cutter height should be high enough to keep the stock above the anvil face but not so high as to hinder the control of the hammer swing.

To solve the wedging effect of the hardie post in the hardie hole, make the hardie post just a bit under size and use a 3x3 inch plate to support the tool. Weld the tool to the top of the plate, weld the hardie post to the bottom. All the force is now on the plate and anvil face and not on the hardie hole.

Another way to avoid the wedging effect in the hardie hole is to weld the hardie post to the side of the anvil too, and if needed an alignment tab. This way the tool rests on the face of the anvil, and the alignment tab keeps the tool from shifting off the face.

That said I have seen a blacksmiths make hardie tools from a piece of 2 inch square, by forming a hardie post to fit the hardie hole, placing the hot stock into the hole and forming the top of the tool. This wedged the hardie post both into the hardie hole and was a perfect fit and match for only that orientation on only that anvil. Turn the tool 90* and it would stand above the anvil face, and not fit properly.

Some smiths use a different hammer when using a hot cut so as not to cut into their smithing hammer with the hot cut, or a missed blow.

BP1007 How to use the Hot Cut



Ahh that was my next question. So it's normal for hardy tools, even hardy tools that are made on standard 1" sq bar to only fit in one way and not go in to the shoulder if they are put in any other way. Is this because the hardy hole has a built in slope to create a wedge? My hardy hole looks more like 1 1/8" by 1", i'm guessing it's not actually 1" square but has some minor graduation built into it on the gladiator. If the hole was really 1" square it seems like the hardy would fit inside it in any orientation.
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Apparently most hardie holes are not even perpendicular to the face of the anvil. They are made with a sand core during casting and the sand will move some as the hot steel flows around. This is based on what I have read, my anvil is broken at the hardie.

Phil

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As most anvils were NOT cast this is not a possibility. However punching the hardy hole which was the common method does result in similiar excentricities of shape. On many anvils if you flip them upside down you can see the bulge from the punching operations. (others dressed that region to get rid of it)

scale is an abrasive and will gradually help widen an old hardy hole along with abuse and use.

Many folks like to dress their hardy tools to fit in all orientations and so be a tad loose in some of them. Some colour code their tools for the anvils they fit.

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As Unicorn said, cutter height should be high enough to keep the stock above the anvil face but not so high as to hinder the control of the hammer swing.

To solve the wedging effect of the hardie post in the hardie hole, make the hardie post just a bit under size and use a 3x3 inch plate to support the tool. Weld the tool to the top of the plate, weld the hardie post to the bottom. All the force is now on the plate and anvil face and not on the hardie hole.

Another way to avoid the wedging effect in the hardie hole is to weld the hardie post to the side of the anvil too, and if needed an alignment tab. This way the tool rests on the face of the anvil, and the alignment tab keeps the tool from shifting off the face.

That said I have seen a blacksmiths make hardie tools from a piece of 2 inch square, by forming a hardie post to fit the hardie hole, placing the hot stock into the hole and forming the top of the tool. This wedged the hardie post both into the hardie hole and was a perfect fit and match for only that orientation on only that anvil. Turn the tool 90* and it would stand above the anvil face, and not fit properly.

Some smiths use a different hammer when using a hot cut so as not to cut into their smithing hammer with the hot cut, or a missed blow.

BP1007 How to use the Hot Cut



So is this considered an improper way to do it because it only fits one anvil in one way?
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I believe that, ergonomically, the shorter, the better; since your anvil is set to the optimum hammering height (or as close to it as practical), so you dont want to lift this work area too much. However, as you mentioned, having a taller hardy could be an advantage in certain situations.

SOOOO> make two or more! A short for general use, and a tall for special situations.

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