Rattlecat Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Long hours in the shop, sweating to the bone, dozens of empty water bottles by the door, or maybe even dozens of water buckets. Filth and grime layered enough to make even the finest jacuzzi scream in terror, and possibly make your own spouse leave you with your precious endeavors. You blacksmiths truly have it hard. Hard enough that even modern day blacksmiths, such as the ones who use machines to calculate and carve out a sword pattern; make you look useless, and possibly even angry at the simplicity they've gained through less work and more machine. For the past few hours, just like the past few weeks, I've wondered if it was possible to become an apprentice, to find a school, to find books, or to find the money and time to start as a blacksmith, stay a blacksmith, succeed a blacksmith. The most labor I've done in my life is 6 grueling weeks of Basic Training in the Air Force, and working with my father in construction and repair. Even with all this experience, I don't think I've come across another group, artisan or otherwise, that has the work you fellas do. When people say you need to practice to become good at it, Blacksmithing has to be the primitive subject those people must think about, when it comes to the time and dedication one needs to like it, love it, and practice it until perfect. Today's society is overwhelmingly easy, both in mind, and in education. Every now and then you find a very good person, or a very good school, that teaches what should be taught, that listens to what should be listened to. I know how it must feel for the blacksmiths who take on apprentices, only to find their interests in the making of a sword make them angry at the blacksmith for 'not teaching them anything'. I know how it must feel for the blacksmiths who overhear that some kid playing Fable wanted to learn blacksmithing, then turns about and sneers at the profession for being nothing like in the game. The future has truly dumbed down everything. I most definitely feel for you. I've pursued the dream of being a good artist for years, on and off, practice when I feel it necessary, and I know how difficult it is to start something, and how much more difficult it is to continue with it until finished. To achieve the status of a blacksmith is possibly overwhelming. And for that, I have to say, I can't back down. I started a search two weeks ago to find a blacksmith to take me as an apprentice, to find someone who could point me in the right direction, and even a place to start. To find a forum like this, with people like this, who understand their craft to the core is not only overwhelming compared to other artisan craft forums, it's bloody inspiring. It's also a goal. For that, I can't back down. Out of all the challenges my simple life has seen, blacksmithing may be the one I like the best. If anything, the constant chatter and posts about how difficult and frustrating it is to be a blacksmith, just to start and pursue and continue over the years the refinement of the craft--has become a chip on my shoulder. Something that I haven't had in a long while. If one asked what more there is to just following a dream, I would probably add that you don't just follow your dream, but you follow the others who share your dream. Most like to wish they're the only ones to pursue a specific goal, but I think I like the idea of every single person on this forum in the same craft, the same line of work, the same desire, is far more fulfilling then doing it on your own. I came here because like most fantasy-loving kids, I wanted to make swords and shields and daggers and weapons crafted just like in the old days. I still plan to, I can tell you that. I already have my 'ultimate goal' in mind regarding the results of physical labor and year-filled learning. But, I've decided, I'm not just here for the swords. My little childhood fantasies can wait. Clearly you've all had your own share of people with the same swordsmithing dream who quit when they couldn't handle the labor. I don't want to be another 'bad student'. So they all can wait. What I'm interested in doing is blacksmithing. Learning how to approach it, how to do it, how to expand my abilities in it, and how to create everything possible with it. The swords can wait. I want to be a blacksmith, just like the rest of you. And if that means I have to visit this forum every blasted minute my eyes are open, and even sleep with hammer hits ringing in my ears...well then. I'll get it hot, hit it hard, and I'll quit when I'm xxxxxx finished. Mm. Thank you. :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Apprenticeship: so basically you are asking some one to bet their house, shop, car, tools, retirement savings---all they own on *you*. How long/closely would you have to know someone before being willing to do that? How much are you willing to pay to be an apprentice? For a professional "babysitting" a new person is a monetary loss that most self employed people can't afford. Unless you can bring skills or money to the job to make up for lost productivity; apprenticeships are not a nice thing to do to someone. In previous discussions the consensus was that it would take about 10 hours of unsupervised work for every one on one hour with the "master blademaker" . Most shops don't have that much scut work and many times doing the scut work is the time the master uses to figure out problems they are having. Many don't have the room or tools for 2 people to safely work independently. (I know this as I spent a year apprenticed to a top swordmaker, 6 days a week in the shop, no pay, 2 meals a day with the family---and I still feel guilty over it!) Also in today's single authorship mindset you *can't* help a blademaker do their stuff without dropping their price substantially. DON"T BE DISCOURAGED---change your mindset! Basically if you want someone to teach you; pay for a class, go to conferences, start getting friendly with the local smiths, many of whom will be happy to give you pointers and help *outside* of a formal apprenticeship. Learn skills: jewelry making is directly applicable to making fittings for blades and scabbards; welding is always helpful around the shop---both these skills can usually be found being taught at local community colleges!! Even machining can be used to make jigs that "traditionally" might be give to an apprentice to spend a month with a file to make. Start getting your basic set of tools together---fleamarkets are your friends! If you do it slowly it can be done quite cheaply BTW you might want to look into the NeoTribal forum "Primal Fires" for a group of people trying to take blacksmithing/bladesmithing back to the early basics building adobe filled washtub forges, fueld by chunk charcoal and using hunks of scrap as anvils. (and doing some *great* work too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 May I suggest that you go to the opening page of IForgeIron.com and click on all the buttons. There is a bunch of good information available once you past the home page. Go to the bottom of the IForgeIron Forum right hand side in the green bar and click on archive. It should bring up a directory tree of the forum. Click on a section, then click on a sub-section, and notice 2,3,4 ,,, at the top of the page. By default your on page one. Click on a topic and you can read the entire discussion from the first question to the last comment in one place. We suggest you pack a lunch and a cold drink before you go into the archive. (grin) Go to the IForgeIron Gallery by clicking on gallery at the top of the home page or the top of the forum. There are over 15,800 images for you to review. This is a great resource for ideas, projects, and what others have done with the craft. In reply to another of your posts, it was suggested you go to IForgeIron.com > Metalworking Lessons > Lessons in Blacksmithing. By following that reference you have already found LB0008 Reference material and LB0008.0001 Reference Material. Both of these sections will assist you in your quest for knowledge. Once you have read and understand the above material, put it into practice. To continue your quest for knowledge, attend classes, attend hammer ins, join a blacksmithing group in your area, and become involved in the craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Great! Now walk down the street to the Fayetteville Antique Mall and look at what is available for low cost blacksmith tools. I believe they are open till 5pm. Talking and reading is fine, doing is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecat Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 XD Honestly, I never thought anyone would reply to this. It's one of those things I don't feel needed to be replied to. *pats your shoulders* >3 Trust me, I got your hints in Asking The Experts. This was just a bit of a writing piece I needed to get out before I got started. I got everything written down, the places, the tools, even printed out IForgeIron's every page there, Glenn. Nearly ran out of ink too. It's all bound and ready to be carried wherever I go over the next few weeks, possibly months, possibly years. Yehaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 If you really think you are going to learn to smith by spending every minute on line on every forum. You will truly be a record setter in the area of learning. AS suggested about the shortest path down the road to learning is with instruction. One on one or group. Pony up some money for these classes and you will see wot we mean. Glenn's suggestion to use wot is available on here is great as it will open your eyes to the kinds of steps you need to take. From step one to higher education. Anything you do on your own may lead to problems. If you practice the same thing everyday at the forge you may get really good at doing something the wrong way. A basic class is a start but always schedule more time in the near future for follow up classes or review of your progress. And realistically if you do attend a class and get some equipment ,work real hard at this craft you admire and spend a lot of time at it, in a couple of years you may even make some of your invested money back. Take this as a realistic look at wot it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 And don'to forget you have to know what to hit, what to hit it with, how hot it needs to be and when it is finished....lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecat Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 I've always been slow at reading, mostly because I take the time to digest what's being said, rereading to understand. I like to ensure I get the instructions right before I start hacking away at something (made that mistake when working with swords). I don't think I'll be a record setter. As some have suggested, and as I've personally noted, I like to work on the same process again and again until I -know- I feel comfortable and I know I've gotten the steps correct. If it takes me two days, three days, even a month to learn a certain thing, I'll do it till it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) if I might just interject a thought about what Rich said....good set of physical instructions from a good smith would be nice. If I have read your posts right you need an anvil height shorter than most but the hammer and tong skills would not change. Basic skills are worth a lot towards building good posture and keeping away from physical issues (injuries) at a later date. Getting your own anvil and a few tools would be a great way to get started. BTW welcome aboard. Edited July 17, 2009 by Ten Hammers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecat Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Thanks for the welcome Ten. I'm actually probably going to need two anvils, or at least two different types of stands. Since my fiance is joining me on this 'expedition', and he's two feet taller than I am, we're both going to have to put together our own personal sides of the workshop. I'm a tad worried for him, since he was medically separated from the military for scoliosis (it's not 'terrible', but he is 7 degrees off), that he may have trouble leaning over the anvil as I've seen the positioning working. He says if he can find a comfortable routine, it will be fine, but I am worried it may do more damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Bad posture among smiths tends to come about from having the anvil too low. Anvils used to be placed at a height that allowed strikers to use sledge hammers. Positioning the anvil at the proper height so that he does not need to bend over is likely your best solution. I also recommend a Hofi ergonomic hammer for your fiance. I'm a tad worried for him, since he was medically separated from the military for scoliosis .... that he may have trouble leaning over the anvil as I've seen the positioning working. He says if he can find a comfortable routine, it will be fine, but I am worried it may do more damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecat Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Alright, I'll definitely have to put that down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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