Avadon Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Does anyone have a cut away or dimensions for the inside of a 1" hardy hole. I'm curious which face(s) are sloped. I want to make a hardy hole stand that I can mount to a stump. Design suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Make it straight or make the bottom a little wider than the top so hardy tools don't wedge. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 Make it straight or make the bottom a little wider than the top so hardy tools don't wedge. Frosty huh? I thought the whole point was for the hardy tool to wedge into place? I thought the idea was something like this.. but this doesn't really seem right I was thinking about taking a piece of square tubing with 1" sq ID and then cutting lengthwise up the bottom a few inches, then weld it shut. So it would make a very elongated "V" shape. Will this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Avadon: And you would do this, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 One reason you want tools to go in and come out easy is that you should never be tempted to leave one in when you're hammering. You can lose a finger coming down wrong on a hot-cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I always understood that the "good" ones were wider at the top so it would wedge in but could be tapped from the bottom to release. Guess it doesn't really matter. Mine is straight sided and I make my stakes so they go in any direction except where direction matters. They rattle a bit but still work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 NO!!! Since anvil heels were originally jumpwelded onto the main mass of the anvil you DON'T WANT TO WEDGE ANYTHING THERE! as in "I wonder what would happen if I took the weakest part of the entire anvil and deliberately tried to break it off??? Sheet metal stakes are wedged in sheet metal stake plates and stake holders and have tapered shanks. They are not advised for use in anvil hardy holes. They also take a lot less force than anvil tooling as few sheet metal workers are using sledges on their stakes. Anvil tools have straight shanks and if anything is wedging tight you should dress them so they don't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I just borrored a DVd from the Salfork blacksmith Group that had Tolm Clark talking about hardies in 2007. He tallked about how to make a hardy fit the hole if the hole was a little too big. He recomended making a spot weld(s) on the tang near the top then grinding till it was tight fit. He went on to say if the hole is smaller at the bottom than the top to do the same thing near the bottom of the tang to make a tighter fit so there was contact top and bottom of the hole. If the hole was bigger at the bottom too bad nothing you can do. Ussually the hole is larger at the top due to wear/abuse ect. On this DVD Tom talked about what he used to make hardies from. He used 5160 as he bought tons of new stock from a spring shop that was closing. He did not recoment 4140 or truck axels (which he said was similar) for hot cuts as he did not think there was enough carbon but said they make a good cold cut hardy. He went on to harden and temper a hot cut. He also marked the shank with a chisel cut which always went into the hole facing the horn. Said a hardy only fits one way in the hole as the hole is never square. He also talked about his hand hammers used 1045 and how he hardened and tempered them. It was realy nice to see Tom again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 How about making a key slot in the shank? That seems to work very well and is seen on many treadle hammer tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Seems like a lotta solutions looking for a problem. (IMRHO)* *(In My Rarely Humble Opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 So is it the shoulder that holds the hardy tool in? And I guess if it's not wedged in there it does jump with blows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 A shoulder will stop tooling driving deeper into any hole. When bouncing around is a problem i've thought about (but not been able to try..) some solutions. 1 ridiculously long tool shank (eg half way to the floor) that works as a counterweight 2 some kind of quick release system that bears on the underside of the heel. I'm thinking a tapered wedge thru the tool shank, or nut on thread bearing against coil spring to underside of heel. ...discuss! Andrew O'C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I would think the tapered wedge through the tool shank would be the best in that case. Drop in the tool, tap in the wedge then bang away. Quick tap to get it apart. Simple... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 I would think the tapered wedge through the tool shank would be the best in that case. Drop in the tool, tap in the wedge then bang away. Quick tap to get it apart. Simple... Yah but isn't that putting pressure on the heel everytime your tool takes a blow? Isn't that what was previously stated in this thread as bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 I guess my question is when the hardy tool goes into the hardy hole is there supposed to be a little friction on all sides as it slides down till the shoulder touches the anvil face or is normally that tolerance pretty lose around the four sides of the hardy tool shank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Hello, When I was looking to buy my current anvil I came across several that had their heels missing, can you guess where the shear had happened? All were on the line of the hardy's bick-end edge. Lesson learned = never have anything tight in a hardy. I have recently finished making a couple of hardy tools - small bicks - and have made the shafts for the hole long enough to emerge from its bottom, about 5". This length - the added weight it gives the tool + the extra surface that can contact the hardy's walls - combined with a VERY close fit on all sides (as close as will allow easy fitting & removal in any of the four rotations) means very little movement and easy removal. It took quite a time to get the fit but no problems so far, only improved working characteristics. Conclusion = close fit good, tight fit bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TASMITH Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Thomas is correct in that your hardy should NEVER wedge in the hole. It is THE quickest way to break the heel off your anvil. All your hardy tools should drop in freely and be easily removed by hand. That is all that really needs to be said other than having a good shoulder on the hardy tool that rests even on on the face of the anvil to help absorb the impact. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 GNGC has taken the words out of my mouth (or off of my keyboard)! If you have a tapered hardy every time you hammer on it you are driving a wedge into the weakest point of the anvil (just like splitting a log). One cold day it will shear straight across. It might be decades coming but it will happen. Any slight crack or even a deep scratch in the steel will be impercepibly widened by each blow. Out of interest the prototypes I am currently testing are also being tested for hardy hole sizes. So I currently have 5 working anvils and, you guessed it, 5 different hardy hole sizes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Hello, When I was looking to buy my current anvil I came across several that had their heels missing, can you guess where the shear had happened? All were on the line of the hardy's bick-end edge. Lesson learned = never have anything tight in a hardy. I have recently finished making a couple of hardy tools - small bicks - and have made the shafts for the hole long enough to emerge from its bottom, about 5". This length - the added weight it gives the tool + the extra surface that can contact the hardy's walls - combined with a VERY close fit on all sides (as close as will allow easy fitting & removal in any of the four rotations) means very little movement and easy removal. It took quite a time to get the fit but no problems so far, only improved working characteristics. Conclusion = close fit good, tight fit bad. That sums it up perfectly. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Well in 28+ years of forging I have never had a problem with hardies bouncing even when they fit quite loose in a hole. What are you doing that this is a problem for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Yah but isn't that putting pressure on the heel everytime your tool takes a blow? Isn't that what was previously stated in this thread as bad? The taper would not be the bit that goes through the anvil but it would be a wedge that goes through the tang/shank for want of a better description. It would be under the anvil and could be taped in and out as needed. It was an answer to the previous post as a possible remedy to bouncy tools. Mine all rattle around a bit but it probably bugs some people enough for them to try other remedies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 The taper would not be the bit that goes through the anvil but it would be a wedge that goes through the tang/shank for want of a better description. It would be under the anvil and could be taped in and out as needed. It was an answer to the previous post as a possible remedy to bouncy tools. Mine all rattle around a bit but it probably bugs some people enough for them to try other remedies. ahhh.. okay I get it now. Thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Phillip in China: That would be some good feedback. Most manufacturers are starting to standardize on a 1" hardy hole. I've managed to talk some into that. I only manufacture 1" hardy tools and I refuse to try to cover every possible size. There is no logical reason to make different size holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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