Medieval bodkins

[MetalMuncher]

Greetings fellow smiths!


I just had another quick question if I may. My girlfriend( and hopefully my future wife ) wanted me to forge something for her dad. He is English, and a very cool dude. I wanted to make him some medieval bodkins (just to put on his desk or something). I have a picture of one here. I was just wondering how did they get the socket transition so clean? Did they use a spring fuller? And if you have any one of you has a few pictures of medieval war speaheads, please share I thought a spearhead would be cool for him too. Many thanks, and God bless!

[HWooldridge]

I saw an English smith make one on TV and she used a "smithin' magician" type of fuller to make the transition then spread the body with the hammer peen and rolled it around a cone. Took several heats but a good job in the end.

[ThomasPowers]

Wish you were closer I'd let you look at my renaissance quarrel point---an original. They were surprised when I bought one of the more weathered ones over the others; but the weathering shows the grain of the wrought iron and so exactly how it had been worked.

A simple fuller made by bending round rod back on itself with a slight gap works well. To make it really fancy fold one end till it will fit snugly in the hardy hole so you don't have to have someone hold it as you use it.

[HWooldridge]

Thomas,

Was the cone welded or simply wrapped so the ends met?

[MetalMuncher]

Thanks guys! I suppose a fuller would do it. The pein-ing bit is not an issue...the trouble comes when I try to round up the shoulders. Hey Thomas, whats a quarrel point? Must be something like a tudor bodkin right? You have an original? Cool! Thanks dudes!

[ThomasPowers]

Quarrel is an arrow for a crossbow, points are usually short and stout, (and 4 sided).

On mine and the others they had for sale, the cone was welded. Much easier with real wrought iron than modern mild steel!

I did very well spending a summer in Germany on a business trip; lots of research opprotunities and I even got to do a pattern welded billet at an open air museum as the 80 year old smith wanted to see how it was done. (why yes I always travel with a billet and flux...)

[Dave Budd]

that bodkin looks like it's a machined example rather than (just?) forged. I've come across a lot of modern made arrowheads, including bodkins, that are cleaned up with a file after forging.

A spring fuller as described would tidy a forging up, but they are mass produced and disposable objects, I can't imagine a smith bothering with that? The basic bodkin points were made in their millions. The smarter short bodkins for plate armour piercing take a bit more care over manufacture (such as a different iron, sharper corners and tidy wasting behind the head, also a convex point rather than a flat pyramid), so a bit of stock removal may be needed? As far as I know, the mass produced arrowheads are not welded shut, but the hunting tips often were (i'm willing to be corrected there)

I was demonstrating arrowhead forging to a school group last year with my iron age forge (hole in ground with bellows). Without having a few useful tools (*), it still took only a little over 90 seconds (two heats) to get from glowing 1/2" bar to ready-to-shoot arrowhead.


*I only had a hand-held chisel, hammer, Bick iron type anvil (so a flat face and a round bick, with no hardy or cutting table), flat and small socket tongs. A hardy cutter and a small swage or V-tool (for starting to form the socket) would have made life easier and sped things up.

[MetalMuncher]

Thanks again. I suppose, when being mass produced, that it really wouldnt matter if it looked good. I also agree that it looks machined. Thanks dudes!

[Bob JS]

I was browsing youtube and came across a vid showing one way of making long bodkin heads and remebered reading this thread. (there may be better vids out there)

Unfortunately the finishing of the socket is kind of glossed over and it doesn't look quite a refined as the one you pictured, so probably doesn't help answer you main question that much, but you might find the vid interesting anyway.


YouTube - Arrowhead, Forging a medieval long bodkin - English Heritage

Bob

[HWooldridge]

That design would be relatively easy to cast in bronze - which they may have done prior to making them from iron.

[dragonflySmithy]

I have been wanting to make some of these so that I can make a few war arrows. A good buddy of mine shoots archery in the SCA. Well maybe for next X-mas.

[Vinlander]

When I make bodkins I start with a 3/8 steel rod and upset the bottom inch or so of it. I flatten it out and then heat and curl it around the tip of a small horn I made for the hardy hole. I keep heating and curling until the cone is shaped, and then the final lapforging of the cone seals it. They come out pretty easy. The bottom of the cone is usually odd shaped so it is cut or filed down until it is symetrical.

I think the key to the whole thing is upsetting enough metal to form your cone without getting it to thin that the heat burns it up.

Good luck on the forging. Post some pics for us.

Vinlander
[email protected]

[Angus]

Back then it didnt matter if it was clean looking as long as it would penatrate through that armor. They are really easy to make, you should have no prob with them.

Angus..

__________
No its not called a skirt and yes im going regimental.

[ThomasPowers]

Rereading this thread I was reminded that people making these were often required to make several thousand a year as "tax" payment. If I had to make 20 or 30 thousand in my career I might get pretty good at them too.