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Effects of welding galvanized steel...


mcraigl

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Does anyone have a link to an "official" description of the negative effects of welding galvanized? A guy on another forum is convinced that if he just drinks a big glass of milk after welding it, that he'll be OK. He's building boat blinds for duckhunting, and a lot of other guys on that forum do the same thing. I'll keep searching the web too, and post up what I find out.

ML

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Without the right preparations and precautions your taking the express lane to a dirt nap 6 feet under. IT"S NO JOKE !!!!!! grind all galvanizing off before welding and make sure you have an overabundance of ventalation of clean air while grinding and welding - - no-one wants to read about you in the paper in the recent deaths column.

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Do a search on IForgeIron for "fume fever" to get started. Then Google "metal fume fever" and "heavy metal poisioning".

Grinding on galvanized material also puts zinc particles into the air as dust. Getting different materials containing zinc hot can release zinc fumes, brazing for instance. Zinc is not the only heavy metal that causes concern. Welders have problems from inhalation of the welding smoke and the materials (heavy metals and otherwise) that the smoke contains.

When you get your research complete, please present it as a Blueprint as a reference for others.

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There are just alot of things that are done regularly that are really dangerous but for some reason the folks involved have not had a disaster yet. Like misuse of gasoline, welding galvanize etc. Irn mentioned Paw Paw. It has been a while since his death so I will give the short version. He put some galvanized metal in the forge. He became very ill and the Docs could not chase it down. He had his family research heavy metal poisoning and the Descrition descride his signs and symptoms. It was too late for him and he passed on.
A short sniff of toxic fumes from any source may not seem to have an affect on you but then again it may. Since I do not know I like to tip the scales in my favor.
A prime concept to consider is how do the fumes get to you, through inhalation, not ingestion. You breathe the fumes not drink them. Think about the milk thing. I know this will not be a popular statement as I personnally know there are a lot of welders that will work in a shop if there is not cold milk availeable.
Back to me. I will weld galvanize and did so yesterday. I ground the surfaces clean while a fan blew the air away from me while I worked,,,including welding. I used a flux core wire and the air flow did not bother it like a gas shield. But then an indirect flow of air could do the same thing if you use gas shield. And at times I like a big glass of cold milk!

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In an old James F. Lincoln welding manual (ca. 1940) it reccomends MOM-milk-of-magnesia, for exposure to fumes from welding galvanized metals. I personally want nothing to do with galvi. If you grind and weld, you really should re-coat the weld with galvinization, or it just rusts out at the weld. HMP is not reversible as far as I know, and is not a fun ride.

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I've welded a lot of corral panels, galvanized, always outside, and always from the upwind position, with a respirator the last few years only, before that I just "did the job".

But, I just had a kidney removed for cancer and the docs say it can be a result of "exposure to industrial chemicals", and the zinc does come to my mind from time to time as an "industrial chemical".

I recommend other ways to take a vacation and to spend your money on.

If you want a power hammer but can't find the money ask yourself about coming up with the copay for the surgeon and hospital for kidney removal, and unless you are fortunate enough to have truly good health insurance you will find the answer the question on how to raise the power hammer money, but without a power hammer to show for it.

So, my short answer is, don't do it.

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Here is a link to a site that has data on all sorts of chemical hazards. The second one takes you directly to zinc oxide which is what you get when you heat zinc above it's boiling point like in welding or forging. You can then click on metal fume fever in the body of the test to get additonal info. This site "should" be bookmarked in every blacksmith's list of favorite sites and it "should" be consulted before using any chemical. Drinking milk to avoid the effects of metal fume fever is an old wives tale and is totally ineffective, sitting on a popsicle would give you an equal amount of portection. Further, I would direct their attention to my Blueprint on Respiratory Protection which is published on this site.

As bad as Zinc is, there are other materials out there that are worse. Cadmium which can be found in Nickel/Cadmium (NiCad) welding rod and also as a coating on some brands of Grade 8 bolts and nuts. Hydrogen Fluoride is another. Hydrogen Fluoride is the gas given off by heating Fluorite which is found in some welding and braising fluxes. What follows is a direct quote from 29 CFR 1910.146 (OSHA Permit Required Confined Space Regulatons)

"Immediately dangerous to life or health (IDLH) means any condition that poses an immediate or delayed threat to life or that would cause irreversible adverse health effects or that would interfere with an individual's ability to escape unaided from a permit space.

Note: Some materials

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Thanks everyone. I think we've convinced this guy that drinking a glass of milk isn't going to be enough. Woody, I think he's going to try sitting on the popsickle after drinking the milk... Just kidding. In all seriousness, as Ellen said, I too have "just got the job done" a few times. I have always "tried" to be upwind or have a fan but there's been a few times where that all just didn't work out. It won't ever happen again. I'll try to compile a list of links and maybe a summary of info. For instance one of the things I'm really interested in (partly because I have inhaled some in the past), is what are the cumulative effects if it is cumulative (I think most heavey metal type stuff is), and what's it's half life in the body etc. Again, thanks for the info.
Mike

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I see my kidney surgeon again on July 17th. I've made a note to ask him a few questions on this topic, and will report back.

I'm thinking back to welding on the lower parts of corral panels (where they rust out most often), and thinking of many times on windless days tasting the zinc and blowing my nose and getting a yellowish white tinge........

It is my understanding, and this is unsubstantiated by scientific research of the literature on my part, that (1) heavy metal poisoning is cumulative (2) that it stays in your body virtually forever.....

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Those of us that HAVE welded galvanized over the years will recall a distinct taste in our mouth afterwards. Peculiar taste. Heavy metal poisioning is cumulative, yes. The last few times I have welded anything with a questionable coating ( inc powdercoat, galvanized, etc ) I have either used the shop fan or a shop vac. The shopvac hose can be placed to the side of the weldament and will draw all the smoke ( this is on a table ). I do NOT make a practice of welding plated stuff. I weld for a living and we weld through cutting fluid, mill preservation oil, etc daily. We use fans to take the smoke away from us and still keep the shielding gas ( same fashion I use in the home shop ). We are issued one set of lungs and other body parts. Some are critical, some not. We really need to take care of the critical stuff. In this day and age, some parts can be replaced or rebuilt. amazing stuff this modern medicine. Ellen brings up some very good points though.

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I realized that I wasn't using all of my resources on this so I emailed a couple of my friends that are physicians and asked them for reference material also. Unfortuneately I'm going on vacation for a while and won't be back to it until the middle of July. I'm more and more interested in the half life of heavy metals in our body. Hoping to have some good info to report back in a bit.

ML

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Further, I would direct their attention to my Blueprint on Respiratory Protection which is published on this site.


Woody, can you tell us what the number of this blueprint is? I've been looking by subject and by author, but found nothing under Respiratory Protection or Woody.

rvb
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  • 4 weeks later...

A few people are able to take advice on what is bad for their health. Most have the additude that if I am careful I can get away with it. A few things that I have marked down to NOT do again.

1. Don't cut or weld Galv. Except outdoors, in a breeze.
2. Don't weld inside a bright galvanized shed or barn, especially if there or two of you welding.
3.NEVER tell your wife to chill out, shut up, or sit down.

Chuck

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  • 3 weeks later...

After reading the Paw Paw Wilson tragedy, I went into my shop and removed and discarded any iron with zinc or shiny coating on it; like cadmium coated bolts and nuts etc. I don't want to weld, grind burn or forge anything like that. A lot of painted metal isn't great for you either. I also wear a dust mask to keep the soot and dust out of my breathing apparatus. I want to enjoy my grandchildren for as long as possible.

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  • 1 year later...

In my younger days as a apprentice welding Gavl was one of those jobs that just had to be done sometimes.
The guy who talked about drinking milk is mostly right accept that you drink it before starting to weld.
I havent touched the stuff in 20 years and dont intend to any time soon.
The effects of Zinc poisioning are not very pleasent.
The systoms are :
1/ Sweet tast in mouth.
2/ The Shivers ( no matter how hard you try to stay warm you still shiver )
and finally 4/ where you vomit for a few hours.
It takes a good 24hrs to clear.

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Squire
go to the top of the forum page and click on user cp
click on edit profile
go to the bottom of the page, enter your location, and save.

We would like to know where in the world you are located.

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One other big nasty is beryllium dust so you knifemakers be carefull when you grind scrap bronze and avoid stuff that may be Be containing. I had a beautiful colour bronze wrench I was going to make into a knife guard once---until I read about the effects of beryllium poisoning. Then I trashed it immediately as Be bronze was used for non-sparking tools!

Talking with a friend who was a professional brass founder he told me that *1* piece in a traincar load of brass scrap that tested positive for Be was grounds for not accepting the entire load *and* they had to decontaminate the entire scrap area---that was a tad large as they took in train carloads of scrap.

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Its right here in black and white.
Safety and Health Topics: Hexavalent Chromium
Use a good hepa respirator not one of those cheapie paper masks and forget the old wifes tale of drinking milk before welding. I wish i had this info 30 years ago when i started instead of drinking a glass of milk because i prob wouldn't have a puffer in my pocket now...Bob

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After reading the Paw Paw Wilson tragedy, I went into my shop and removed and discarded any iron with zinc or shiny coating on it; like cadmium coated bolts and nuts etc. I don't want to weld, grind burn or forge anything like that. A lot of painted metal isn't great for you either. I also wear a dust mask to keep the soot and dust out of my breathing apparatus. I want to enjoy my grandchildren for as long as possible.


Yeah I going to take ALL the gal. stuff in my 2 shops and throw it in the scrap bin and never use it !!!!!!!!
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  • 2 weeks later...

I was shocked when my shop teacher who i thought was extremely knowledgablebegan setting aside scrap pieces for us to practice welding an he had all kinds of galvanized bits, and i explained to him the negative effects of the galvanization burning off and he got the textbook which listed nothing at all about the effects of burning off galvy. luckily he allowed me to use his computer and i took him to this site and showed him the thread about how Paw paw died from burning galvanization off of steel. if i have to use a piec of galvy i will throw it into some muriatic acid for a while, and then use the steel, because most of the tie you cant grind every bit off. but i am appy to say there is a sing above each welding station in our shop at school that says not to weld any galvanized metal. ( i got em to give it me :) )

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