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I Forge Iron

Blade testing chat May 8-09

Steve Sells

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[LDW] I got a bunch of chipper blades today made from D2, They are about 3 feet lon and 4 inches wide. I split one with a plasma cutter
[steve sells] were you trying to splt it ?
[LDW] Yes, they are 1/2" thick Would you let it air harden or quench in oil?
[JJ] i air hardened 2 d-2 blades recently...rockwell low 60's.
[LDW] I have never worked with D2, looking forward to it.
[steve sells] for D-2 I would use interrupted Edge quench in oil, same as I do the H-13
[LDW] what is interupted quench?
[JJ] what rockwell you looking for there steve? interrupted...in and out,
[steve sells] only immerse the edge for 1/2 inch or so and remove till oils borns off, dunk again,,, each time allowing the heat from the spine to temper a buit as we go
[steve sells] after allowing to finish air cooling, I do a 2 hour temper in the oven
[Rich Hale] Steve is that better than what the companies recommend?
[JJ] wonder if it would work to temper in a batch of chicken wings...oil coat from chicken wings all ov er b lade eventually
[steve sells] I have papers for both air or oil. most do not sugget oil in the normal way of dunking and leaving it in there, as its too severe
[steve sells] I learned about interpreted quench from my blade teacher, Bill Wyant that was a Govt test engineer
[JJ] what rockwell steve? blade vs spine?
[steve sells] I dont do a lot with air steels, not much difference, but I use files to test, I dont have a machine so they could be the same
[JJ] i use files also
[steve sells] : I need to buy my own set
[JJ] enco $104
[Rich Hale] : R Testor $200
[steve sells] Last I checked the enco was 125 nice to see somethi9ngs is cheaper these days
[Rich Hale] May not work for you as it is limited in thickness you can test but I can hook you up
[JJ] some form of rockwell testing is a must for tempering b lades and tools.
[steve sells] $200 for a testor more accurate thanthe files I like that idea, but need money, and the more accurate then more meaningful the results of the testing
[JJ] files come only in 5 point increme nts...ie, Rc 40 - 65.
[steve sells] I have no idea how this meteorite blade is going to harden up but its got a strange "glow" at 60 grit like 200 nickel sheet does
[jeremy k] I didn't know files came in different hardnesses - Hummmm
[ApprenticeMan] A set of rockwell files Jeremy
[JJ] i got mine by searching enco website, "rockwell hardness files"
[jeremy k] what are the standard files at for hardness?
[steve sells] I think the set I borrow is 40-45 45-50 50-55 55-60 60-65
[Rich Hale] And remember not to test damascus with a Rockwell testor
[JJ] next time i'm heat treating jere, i'll test some.
[steve sells] Question for everyone.. HOW hard do we need to make a knife ?????
[ApprenticeMan] depends on what it is to do
[LDW] 58-60 ?
[steve sells] Perfect answer Sam
[Rich Hale] Depends on the knife its use and the material and size
[lobodag] : who"s different standards varies in manufacture
[JJ] i like a chain saw file to just slide o ver the b lade edge and not cut it. but i want it to cut the spine. that's ab out 62 Rc b lade
[steve sells] we mentioned the files set, and JJ mentioned chain sawe file, What other ways can we test to see our blades are what we wanted?
[lobodag] I think there is only three left here simonds ,nickelson and starret
[JJ] brass test
[LDW] brass rod but I have never done it
[JJ] bending test
[LDW] cutting with it
[brucegodlesky] I use the brass rod test as a GO/NOGO test
[JJ] 10:24 pm: at gunsmithing school i was taught the "torque"test
[brucegodlesky] whats that JJ?
[Rich Hale] Bruce the bend test is alot like that:)
[JJ] good blade should twist 1/3 around itself in the vixce and snap b ack to original shape if spine is correct.
[steve sells] that one I aint heard...
[LDW] that sounds like it would be terrible if your knife was too hard.
[Rich Hale] Yep
[jeremy k] my luck it would stay twisted
[JJ] lobo, wrap the text b lade in a fire hose, wear all sorts of protective gear
[LDW] I meant you would break your knife instead of getting a chance to re-temper
[steve sells] I have heard of just 45 degree bend and return for swords. brass rod for all edges. and once in a while as destructive test, 90 w/o breaking , and some times cut blade into sections to check for bad welds
[Rich Hale] Wot is the bend test the abs uses Steve?
[steve sells] I am not abs member, but their paper work says no more than 1/2 way crack in a cold 90 degree bend. Hey JJ do you make guns ? or just took the classes?
[JJ] 10:34 pm: i made sniper rifles
[steve sells] I have been helping children ( 7 yr old on average) hammer on clay all day they are trying to copy what I did on the Hot iron in the forge we even gave them 2x6 to use as anvil faces for the demo at the farm today.
[jeremy k] you could have just said you wanted to be like a 7yr old and play with clay today LOL
[Finnr] Got a young fella starting classes after school's out. Confidence building thing
[steve sells] I have to return for all ages tomorrow 9am to 6pm I got to help kids hammer clay what a day LOL
[Finnr] LOL!! Jeremy
[steve sells] We did get away from the topics didnt we?>
[Finnr] Yep
[jeremy k] how does the copper rod hardness test work?
[steve sells] I place the blade edge against it and press gentily I watch the edge flex, and return smoothly
[jeremy k] sideways?
[markb] what deoes the flex tell you
[steve sells] that my edge is not too brittle to hold up to use
[Finnr] if it flexes and returns to shape it's good if it chips or bends and stays it's too hard or too soft
[Rich Hale] I think every one that makes blades should do a lot of testing some of it destructive and keep a log
[steve sells] too soft we get to fix it, too hard we get to re make it
[markb] If it's too hard would it crack or just not flex
[Finnr] I destroy a knife from each batch of new steel. Even if I (GASP ) paid for the steel
[steve sells] Most testing I do is harmless to the blade if it was made correctly, if I goofed, it may be ruined, but rather to me in testing than to a client using it.
[lobodag] at what hardness is this workable?
[steve sells] I ruined the first 2 attempts of the project knifes, and decided I should either buy buy NEW O-1, ot give up making blades...
, they cracked on me, but the first cracked after I normalized, I was still grinding them not heat treated yet., and the second I heard shatter while it was air cooling from the normalizing cycle, as I just finished forging, while cooling in still air. so I cant trust that bar of steel for anything. the big companies call it Quailty Control
[Rich Hale] Did you put it in ashes to let it cool after normalizing?
[steve sells] : I don't use O-1 alot, but I have used it before and never had then crack while cooling. I have not got the new steel since we talked yet Rich, this is what I was telking you last night, before you suggested I use the hot box., I will place in the hot box from now on
[Rich Hale] What is a hot box?
[steve sells] steel pail filled with Vermiculite for sloe cooling, maybe that term is a midwestern thing
[Finnr] I call it a pail of vermiculite
[Rich Hale] Mine is a bucket...SW thing
[jeremy k] corner full of dust here
[steve sells] LOL Jeremy
[Finnr] Dust in a blacksmith shop? LOL!
[steve sells] well it cant hurt to slow cool all the steels, I always normalize after forging, but the annealing pail. never though of that for oil cooled steels
[Rich Hale] My biggest product is dirt
[steve sells] I learned new trick
[jeremy k] would a pale full of clinkers works?
[steve sells] try It jeremy let us know
[Rich Hale] Coal dust will so will dry lime
[Finnr] I use wood ash a lot
[Finnr] got plenty of ash heating with wood
[markb] koawool blanket
[Rich Hale] Ash? not so much here. Wot you working on now Mark?
[jeremy k] I get wheelbarrows full of ash every winter
[steve sells] Oz bear shaped thing
[markb] havn't started anything new but have idea
[steve sells] Such as? we may steal your idea, but take the risk :)
[markb] little dagger full tang black micarta handle 1084, no new ideas here
[Rich Hale] That will look good
[markb] hope so, maybe faster this time
[steve sells] : simple show off the lines of the blade
[markb] show off the shadow scratches LOL
[Rich Hale] : I need help on the scratches Mark?
[markb] Oh yes, they haunt me
[Rich Hale] What do you do for finish?
[markb] I went to 400

Edited by mod07
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