stangcrazy85 Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) so i am new here and thus far i'm loving it anyhow i used a nichols medium to large file for a knife blade tang and all i let it get white hot and then cool ever so slow did all the grinding and shaping then got it hot in the forge thun plunged it in the used motor oil that thing is soooo hard even old grandpa could barley get a edge on it said he had to hone the crap out of it my question is why did it get so **** hard ???? im new to this so go easy on me Edited April 4, 2009 by steve sells Crude language is a violation of IFI policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnptc Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) sounds way to hot before quenching if you re heated to near white check the temp for W1 steel it should be close.....upper orange color if i recall Edited April 4, 2009 by johnptc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 did you temper it after you hardened it. Bake it in the oven at around 375 degrees F for a couple hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangcrazy85 Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 just let it get hot hot didnt check it with a mag. then plunged it in used oil thats pretty much step by step no oven involved like i said im new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 REAd bp 0078 fo information on heat treat To attempt a blade with out understanding what to do next a lot of work and too many failures use the information taht others have written to your advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I'm afraid you're probably produced a dangerous knife on your first attempt. Heating to white is WAY too hot and grain growth will cause weakness. Not tempering it is another mistake that makes it brittle and liable to fail when you need it most. Do a little reading and ask some questions before you make your next knife. In the mean time build fires and forge things from mild steel to learn the basic skills you'll need. Follow the "Lessons in Blacksmithing and Getting Started" sections. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangcrazy85 Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 ok then mild steel it is thanks guy for the right track ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Draw temper on that blade NOW! It may still be salvagable even if not nearly as good a knife as you could have had by doing 15 minutes of reading before hand. But as long as it's been hardened but not tempered it is a danger to you and others! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 YIKES! Yes, temper it soonest! Good catch Thomas. What was I thinking? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangcrazy85 Posted April 6, 2009 Author Share Posted April 6, 2009 so i just need to put in the oven for a while ?? someone explain it to me keep inmind i have already attached the handle and epoxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 When you quench a high carbon steel it comes out hardened and will often be as brittle as glass---drop it on concrete and it can shatter into pieces! It also has terrible stresses in it from the quench and can even break just sitting on a bench. So as soon as you get a blade out of quench you *gently* clean it up and draw termper on it. Tempering trades some of the hardness for toughness making it easier to sharpen and also able to take use stresses without shattering in your hand. Tempering temps are based on the alloy, quench medium, intended use, personal preference and is done BEFORE you put a handle/grip on the blade as the temps are usually too high for hilting materials. You did read that BP on heat treating blades didn't you? Seems odd we should have to type all that stuff in again just for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I strongly advise you read the blueprint, and pick up the complete bladesmith by Jim Hrisoulas(sorry if I butchered you name JPH). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) There are sticky's on proper ways to heat treat in the knife section, with links to references, and so there are more links in those, over 200 links all totaled... Also by quenching such a very high temperature, you have created mostly Plate Martensite, rather than lathe, so it will be very brittle no matter how much tempering, compared to a proper temp. quench. Read and try again. Never give up, never surrender! Edited April 7, 2009 by steve sells add info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Just out of curiosity, Is it possible to save a piece that is gone through this improper HT? I understand the handle would be sacrificed, but could one re-heat or normalize per say? Then re heat treat in a proper manner? OR is a piece permanently done for in this extreme over heat and quench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 if it isnt burnt, normalize many times should reduce the grain back to usable size. try it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nett Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 The wood handle can be salvaged if it was epoxied. All epoxies I work with soften around 150 degrees F. A good heat gun can do the job, but remember, wood is a good insulator so it takes time for the heat to migrate to the center - don't rush it with a high setting. Medium heat for long time is much better the HOT heat for short time. After the handle is removes follow instructions to normalize, harden and temper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stangcrazy85 Posted April 7, 2009 Author Share Posted April 7, 2009 ok i appreciate the help found this site way after i started making my knifes tried to post up a pic of it for you guys the RR knife was the first thing i ever forged i think it turned out pretty good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Note if you are going to re-heat treat the blade don't worry about soaking in heat through the wood handle, heat the blade with a propane torch till the epoxy gives out and then remove the slabs and re-heat treat the blade. (scraping as much gunk off the slabs while it's soft is a good isea too but be careful as it's hot!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nett Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 Thomas, your responce is absolutely correct. I never gave any thought beyond removing the part that had been epoxied on. Now, if the blade was in excellent condition and you did not want to alter it in any way, my approach would work, or better yet, a common kitchen oven would do the job. I find myself removing epoxied fittings from objects that are to big for the oven and that's when I find the heat gun is my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.