Alwin Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have been thinking about making some Ti tongs. Anyone have experience with using Ti tongs? What do you think? What sort of thickness is necessary to make them durable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiphile Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 sounds expensive. Titanium is not cheap. I would think that you could start with F.B. 1/4" x 1" and proceed as for standard steel tongs,but,I am not an expert. I would be interested in finding out what others think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Titanium yeilds to the hammer very nicely but has a narrower working range than mild steal. You can make your tongs finer with titanium because of it's strength. I usually start with round stock for making tongs, anywhere from 3/4" to 1/2" for normal tongs. Be aware of titanium yeilding easier than steal if you're making your rivet out of steal. If you try and make your rivet in your tongs like you can with steal, the titanium will move easier than the rivet when it's hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Am I missing something, why not just use stainless? As I presume your going for rust resistance. Or are you specifically using the Ti tongs for the strength? But if so why do you need your tongs so strong? I wonder how ti heats, if it hot soaks faster then mild steel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I am thinking more about the shock absorbing characteristics of Ti. It is nice to lessen the vibrations reaching the body wherever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 My brother made some scrolling tongs you could use to sqeeze collars with and they would hold up like nothing else. Titanium is much easier to work than stainless and it is light like aluminium. It does not transfer heat very well, so your rein stay cooler. I like titanium, but it is too exspensive for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Yeah, I had a few Ti plates and screws put in my back and it cost me $200,000.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Personally, I think that if you're going for shock resistance, I'm not sure that you're getting your piece hot enough. If it shocks your hand, your work piece may be too cold but I'm just making a guess. I have found, however, that instead of using solid pieces for handles that will take abuse and may shock you, use steel tubing, fill it with sand and weld the end shut. I'm not sure why, but it really helps. I think it has something to do with the sounds frequency to be displaced into the air pockets between the sand or it could do with the same principal that a dead blow is based upon. Good luck -Hillbilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 It is rare that something causes a noticeable shock transfer, but I do this almost every day and anything that lessens vibration transmission to the body helps joint longevity. I have a big chunk of Ti that was given to me. The idea of welded tubing filled with sand sounds kind of scary with getting things hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 it doesn't have to be air tight so no explosion problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Then how would the sand stay in. It doesn't seem that there would be any advantage to tubing with sand, it would be heavy and not as strong. The Ti is light and has some shock absorbing properties while still being strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Yeah, I had a few Ti plates and screws put in my back and it cost me $200,000.... I have a titanium ankle joint :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Personally, I think that if you're going for shock resistance, I'm not sure that you're getting your piece hot enough. If it shocks your hand, your work piece may be too cold but I'm just making a guess. I have found, however, that instead of using solid pieces for handles that will take abuse and may shock you, use steel tubing, fill it with sand and weld the end shut. I'm not sure why, but it really helps. I think it has something to do with the sounds frequency to be displaced into the air pockets between the sand or it could do with the same principal that a dead blow is based upon. Good luck -Hillbilly You may be onto something here. One of the last pairs of tongs I used on a very long long project had hollow handles and even when hitting on the pieces of 1/8" steel when they were rather cool it didn't hurt my tong hand any. Tubing handles will cool fast if thrown in a bucket, but they may wick up the height a little faster then solid reigns. The trade off is probably negligibe regarding heat. But they clearly do reduce some shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Quit gripping your tongs! Use tong clips and hold it under the dies where your blow is backed by your anvil, then you can hold your stock with an open palm. Not that you should but you could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 What kind of tong clips do you prefer Brian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I have a few different types and sizes. Some are just C-shaped. I'll use a washer sometimes for small stuff like jewelry with my small tongs. I've used chain links, and I've used Tom Clark's clips. They all work; I don't really have any preferences. But my brother, Ed, likes different sizes of square tubing cut to about 1/2" smashed a little on one diagonal so they fit two different sizes and can be adjusted instantly to another size. He got the idea from Richard Dyer, Ernest Weiman's grandson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 I've never heard of the tubing idea, but I might try it. Using tong clips is a habit I need to get into. I still think titanium tongs might help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 If you have the titanium, you'll like forging it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I made a pair and they where quite fun. Always interesting to hand them to someone and see there reaction... The weight difference is enough that's noticeable but not dramatic... One of those "something is strange here but Im not sure what" kind of feelings. I eventually broke mine at the jaw. I think the problem was that I did to much twisting/forging and the oxidation finely weakened the material past the point of no return. My recommendation would be know what your going to do and do it deliberately and with intent. Ti does not lend itself well to "Tuning" I have planed on building some others and have bought some random chunks of Ti off ebay for this purpose. I bought a slug of 3" round about 4" long that drew out to about 5/8 X 34".... so buy what scraps you can find cheap and work with what you find.... And yes the forging window is very small.... there is only a few hundred degree range where the metal moves well... Its strange to see stuff that is still red hot but wont move under a heavy hammer blow... It has to be worked in the orange to white range... but its oxidizing and damaging the material when its white... so you have to be careful or you make an expensive chunk of scrap... As far as reasons why? Because they are cool... And its just plain fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I made two pair of Ti tongs quite a few years ago, but broke both at the jaw shoulder while using them in a prying motion. Besides the obvious misuse, I learned that the fairly thin section at that shoulder was a problem because, during foring of the jaws, this are picks up oxygen from the fire and is embrittled. I would recommend that you make this region a little thicker than with steel tongs and most important, forge at a very low temp, around 1700 F, to minimize oxygen embrittlement. You can also coat titanium with various flux type agents to minimize oxidation. They tongs really were great until they broke. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thanks patrick and monstermetal. It is interesting to know you both had the same problem. I'll try to strengthen that area of the tongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 This is one way and a really good forging exercise. I saw Bob Patrick do this at Tom Clark's school. The 4th step, next to the finished half tong, can be done in one heat. I'm just showing the passes you make to divide up your material. The first pass starts on the near side of the anvil by choosing the amount of material you want for your jaws and placing it on your anvil then srtike it 3 times with your round face of your hammer straight down with a near sided half hammer faced blow then turn your material 1/4 to the left if you're a righty. Now devide your jaw from your boss with the same 3 blows on the far side of the anvil turn the same direction and divide your reins from the boss with the same 3 blows on the far side of the anvil with the round face of your hammer. Turn 1/4 always in the same direction and come back to the near side of the anvil and divide your tong blank from the rest of your rein with the same 3 blows, turn again and stay in the same spot with the same 3 blows. That is the first pass and the first cut piece in the picture. Now switch to your flat face of the hammer and begin to develop your divisions by attacking high spots angling your flat face to develop the structure of your tongs in the subsequent passes. Next, cut then draw your reins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 I may make a pair like that. I tend to use the bolt style of tongs more often, so I was thinking that is what I'll make first. A slit and drifted eye then an arch out to the jaws. I am curious about the bolt style of tongs that Habermann is shown using at times, they seem like they aren't the smooth curve that is usually seen. It looked like they go up, then have a bend with a smooth inner curve before going back down to the jaws. There is a picture of him holding them on the Blacksmith Supply LLC page. Do you know anything about those or the theory that inspired his modifications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thank you brian! Ive failed a pair of tongs today and il try this exercise first thing tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 That is one thing that Alfred talked alot about. He likened it to holding something with your arms straight out and how much easier it was to hold it with your arms bent. Here is just one example of Alfred's style of tongs that I made for making hammers; they are a simple pick up tong. Hofi has many other styles that he learned from Habermann and even more examples where he went in his own direction and made even more possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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