Steve Sells Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) [steve sells] welcome to the IFI Friday knife chat... or... Welcome to the Dark side..... [markb] I'm a mushroom [steve sells] : Lets start with a old stand by WOOD, how do you prepare it for the blade, so it wont warp, crack, split etc over time ? [jeremy k] before driing or after? before - wax the ends [steve sells] jeremy WHY do you wax on the ends ? [jeremy k] will keep the ends from checking while drying [brucegodlesky] you dunk them ends into the wax J? [jeremy k] or cracking [steve sells] ok, its not that I doubt you, I want ALL of us to have a REASON for doing a thing, not just "because" [jeremy k] bruce hot wax the ends [brucegodlesky] I use a crock pot to melt the wax [steve sells] if I have to teach a class for anything, Knives, red cross for nurses, or martial arts, I want people to understand why things are done, to understand the reasons, allows one to grow beyond what I can teach, it allows you to grow and do more on your own [brucegodlesky] If it's already started checking, nothing will stop it ya must be quick to get the ends covered. A friend of mine uses antifreeze [jeremy k] paint the ends of the wood [steve sells] how does that help,. this isnt a teaching thing, I want to know, as I never heard of using that. and I have NO clue.. LOL [brucegodlesky] seals the ends of the wood same as wax [steve sells] I never though of that, I wonder who that does it,m I understand the wax, and use it myself [brucegodlesky] well Steve, it doesn't really evaporate [jeremy k] like capping a straw - dries from the middle out? [Finnr] We waxing end grain? [lobodag] anyone do resin stabilization ? [brucegodlesky] thats why its best to debark it [steve sells] I know the wax does that, but cant fathom how the antifreeze does it too [garey] i use Nelsonite to stabilize [steve sells] we are getting there Lobo [brucegodlesky] it provides a moisture proof barrier [Finnr] PEG replaces the moisture in wood [markb] Nelsonite? [garey] it is a presertive [steve sells] for those that dodnt get here at the start, we are covering NON steel things for blades, starting with wood, and it preparation for long term uses. [Finnr] Whee! Wood I know! [steve sells] so first thing is drying the wood.... as green wood aint a good thing to use [markb] PEG? [garey] i will chime in when Steve get further along [Finnr] olyethelyne glycol [lobodag] did you start with directional cutting to inspire mosture controll ? [brucegodlesky] good for sealing wood and the neighbors cat [lobodag] or did i miss that? [steve sells] just finishing up the waxing of trhe ends, then Antifreez was mentions so I was exploring that [brucegodlesky] Stuff the sawmills use is wax base I believe [steve sells] OOO before garey gets too far [markb] 1 Where do you store wood to dry? [steve sells] 1 HOW do you tell when wood IS dry enough ? [Finnr] Anchor Seal is a common one at mills [steve sells] my basement, I have a de humidifyer [lobodag] burl needs to dry slow or be green treated, like the carvers do [Finnr] For green to dry I allow one year per inch plus [steve sells] with Garey and NOW riuch hale too, I thknk I can go to bed and let them Finish this topic with out me lol [lobodag] the amish store them in the basement for long periods prior to uses [steve sells] these guys know their stuff :up: [markb] I have 4" limb of black locast left out side a year what next [steve sells] outside in AZ is dif that outside in Hawaii [Finnr] three more years under cover drying unless you slice it thinner [steve sells] as I mentioned I vae humidity control for the basement shop [markb] Oregon wet winter dry summmer [steve sells] How do you test that its dry enough ? [Finnr] moisture meter [steve sells] please explain.. because I shouldn't have to do all the work here [Finnr] cute little electronic gadget that checks the moisture level [brucegodlesky] them guys have this nifty lil tool they jab the wood with [brucegodlesky] go on Finnr [Finnr] poke the pins in the wood and it measures moisture by resistance [lobodag] the new ones are digital surface testers [jeremy k] with little probes that stick in the endgrain and a electric charge between and measures reasistance? [Finnr] Most come with a table for different types of wood [markb] Surface will be different than center [Finnr] that'swhy I cut toslightly over finished sizebefore drying [lobodag] or dry kilns use weight samples fron each stag of drying [Finnr] I do wood better than I type [markb] Doses that depend on type of wood Llol [Finnr] Yes, there are tables with the meters [brucegodlesky] sure some wood holds moisture like a sponge [Finnr] Bass wood has a HUGE wet dry difference [lobodag] burns great green [Finnr] Carves great green! [brucegodlesky]whats the downside? [garey] i like to ues south american woods as they Are on the oily side and moisture content is low. [Finnr] I use a lot of cherry and walnut mostly because I get them free [lobodag] hows the burls? [brucegodlesky] Ya, the mills aren't cutting much walnut anymore [steve sells] I have a fiddle black walnut I have dryed enough, so its time to stabliize [garey] use a lot of cocobolo and bocoto [Finnr] The burls work up great from the cherry [steve sells] soon as the billet from hades is done I will get that [Finnr] LOL [brucegodlesky] ya, cherry burl is nice stuff [garey] some woods dont stabilize very well in a Vacuum to close grained or to oily [steve sells] HOW do we stablilize? 3 ways coat it, presureize to force into grain, opr MY favorite, vacume. what are the pros and cons? [garey] painting or coating wont penetrate deeply [brucegodlesky] I shouldn't start this , .... but at what point does stabilized wood cease to be wood and become plastic [Rich Hale] Bruce the wood I use smells like acrilic all the way through, so it is a toss up....however i have confidence in it after I sell it [Finnr] Tough question [brucegodlesky] wood or plastic [Rich Hale] The best places add the wood and product vaccuum all air out then pressurize [garey] plaswood. [steve sells] 2 atmospheres I have been told is plenty but is it ? I don know.... [lobodag] i hate repairing wood hidden tang handles [brucegodlesky] thats the thing about st wood that bothers me [lobodag] stabilized bone is alsao the best way too [Rich Hale] Bruce with the right tabilized methods I have used redwood for handles great looking stuff and it is hard to put a dent in it with a screwdriver,,,,gives me more options [garey] with my homebuilt rig i pull 25 " of mercury. 28" is considered perfict. [brucegodlesky] yes but at what point does it become a bone shaped piece of plastic [steve sells] rather that than a broken grip later [Rich Hale]Not sure there is an answer to that...it really comes down to what you like to use [steve sells] as long as it dont look cheap. [brucegodlesky] I understand all the positive things about stabilization [steve sells] : after the finish who can tell? its a matter of long term stability for me [brucegodlesky] but is it still wood/bone :-) [garey] i use a frig motor / pump set up for the vacume have a hose going into a mason jar full of preservitive [lobodag] at the point it looks the same feels the same and will give the customer long lasting use, even to the point of outlasting the blade [steve sells] embalmed but yes its still the item that we started with [markb] Some aging is considered character [Rich Hale] So then is an embalmed corpse still a corpse? lol [Finnr] Not having a knife come back for a handle repair is important to me [brucegodlesky] I understand all that and also agree to a point [lobodag] customers dont like 250.00 knives with bad handles [Rich Hale] A suggestion Bruce,,,, if you have not tried a piece of stabilized...order a black from K and G and try it on a knife for yourself... [brucegodlesky] I'm just being ther devils advocate [garey] and you can tell when antler is about saturated to the max. it quits bubbling and foaming [brucegodlesky] I've used it Rich and like micarta better lol [Rich Hale] : Who did your test piece Bruce? [brucegodlesky] I think it originally come from K&G [Rich Hale] Then it is the good stuff [brucegodlesky] 1 LTWright gave me a piece [steve sells] Bruce what is the use of devils advocate? no one said you have to stabilize it [Rich Hale] I am not sure I could seel a knife with micarta I have a different market [brucegodlesky] Personnally , I'm partial to stockmakers finishes [steve sells] rich told me he cant sell Walnut, but JJ and I have many clients asking for it.... [steve sells] clients can be fickle [Rich Hale] I have made a lot of rifle and pistol stocks and i love the hand rubbed look [steve sells] I had ONE order for green micarta [brucegodlesky] thats the ticket [steve sells] : in 15+ years of knife making [garey] i use more deer antler and cocobolo spacers than any thing else [brucegodlesky] : Ron Ryder got me started on them [Rich Hale] I cannot even give walnut away...... [steve sells] I need to build a cross bow, I will use many rifle techniques for that Edited November 28, 2012 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 [Finnr] Bone and antler always attract attention [steve sells] sure ya can rich, give it to me [lobodag] unless its burl , most sales are stag, elk, ivory or dessert ironwood [brucegodlesky] I delivered a walnut handled hunter last week that weighed 2 1/2 oz. 4 1.2" blade and SS furniture [garey] use some blood wood and snake wood. and a little ebony [steve sells] maybe a pinjke for the site ?> LOL [Rich Hale] Not an open option not long back I took a finished knfe with walnut and cut and ground the handle off and am going to redo it with ironwood [steve sells] garey even seen tiger myrtle ? from OZ ? [Rich Hale] Garey if I make a snakewood knife it sells the first show...just bought a nice piece good for at least four knives [steve sells] 10:45 pm: like the snakewood, but the colors dont fade, and most the wood is usable, rather than less than 1/3 as with snake wood [brucegodlesky] To paraphrase another maker, I'll put anything on a knife handle as long as its maple [steve sells] this color lasts, and cost so much less too [garey] havce used purple heart somke to. [brucegodlesky] nice stuff if you can keep it from splitting [steve sells] Less of a problem if you stabilize it first bruce. I once saw a figured purple heart, but when finished didn't look much different that normal grain purple heart [steve sells] 'due to no color variance [Finnr] ' I have a bunch of purple heart I need to use up' [garey] i have some BdeArc ( osage orange ) up in the loft of the shop been up there for 15 years [Rich Hale] I cut down a big mesquite tree a couple of years ago here..cut up quite a few blocks and dried them they do not have enough pattern for me to use [steve sells] also use it for knifes of course [garey] bet its so hard it wil throw sparks when cut. [steve sells] well rich thery is one good used for them, cook dinner [brucegodlesky] is mesquite oily? [Torin] I've got some Ipe I'm looking to try on a knife eventually. [Rich Hale] I saved alot fo wood for that and will likely toss these in or give them to one of the new folks that stop by, No it is fairly dry [brucegodlesky] : Ipe is a SA wood right? [jeremy k] 1 does manzanita wood look good? I know it's super hard though [Torin] Yep. Sometimes called Brazilian walnut. [Rich Hale] I have not seen it on knives J [Finnr] The root burls are gorgeous [Torin] Sands well though. [Finnr] make wonderful turnings [jeremy k] it's a brush type [jeremy k] 1 cut at dusk and you can see sparks from the chainsaw [Rich Hale] 1: Manzanita is a real tough shrub like bush that grows here beanches are small,,red in color maybe at the base of an old bush you could get a block or three [brucegodlesky] my favorite foreign wood is tambootie, African sandalwood [lobodag] would like some [Finnr] bad thing about using the root burls is they often have grown in rocks [jeremy k] I had a chunck a long time ago - don't know what ever happend to it -was about the size of a baseball in diameter [markb] Grows here as tree burls bring big bucks a lot of theft in gov. land [lobodag] the local turner save me there scrap [brucegodlesky] burls resemble mountain laurel burls? [jeremy k] small diamond willow I'd think would look good for scales [garey] hunting the extra batterys i bought for the digital camera today. getting ready for the ride tomorrow. [jeremy k] w/ a matching blade pattern [steve sells] Bruce how does that soft sandlkewood hold up as knife handles with out being stabilized? [brucegodlesky] its really oily so it works well [Rich Hale] JJ I got ran off a dirt road on a motorcycle years ago into a thcik growth of manzanita..from about 60 mph to zero in less than 20 feet dang that hurt [lobodag] oow [brucegodlesky] and smells great too [jeremy k] ouch [garey] how long were you stove up Rich? [brucegodlesky] Steve , only drawback is the price [lobodag] like how much? [Rich Hale] Don't remember [brucegodlesky] I paid $27 for 1/2 board foot [lobodag] of burl? [brucegodlesky] nope, just figured [garey] bet you didnt hop right out of bed the next morning. [lobodag] oh [Finnr] OUCH! [steve sells] I paid 230 for 30 x 2 x 6 inch for the fiddle walnut [Rich Hale] I pay up to $40 bucks for a nice piece of handle material unless its ivory [brucegodlesky] I needed it to match up with a PW blade [steve sells] that was crazy but I loved it somuch lol [Rich Hale] Garey not sure how I even got back to the truck [brucegodlesky] pretty stuff! [Rich Hale] Can I add a gun thing in here yet? [lobodag] I use up all small pieces on my folders, HOW thick can a pc be stabilised, and do you stabilize before or after shaping ? [Rich Hale] I do it before or buy it done most are sized so one knife can be made from it not sure what the max size is [Rich Hale] Garey I went to the gun range today [lobodag] who does your's Rich? [garey] : thickness depends on the porosity of the type of wood [brucegodlesky] I sometimes use Minwax wood hardner and keep the pieces about an inch thick humming sound when running [garey] open grain wood will take the preservative good so you can do thicker pieces [lobodag] red oak you can blow through [Rich Hale] I also look for dyed and double dyed woods [brucegodlesky] pm: yep, 10 minutes in the toaster oven to open the pores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medieval Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I have bought some handle material from knife suppliers.....they talk about stabilizing the wood. I get the general idea, but could use some more info. What is used to stabilize the wood? Where do you get it? Do you need a vacuum table? I am asking because I got 8 pieces of maple (5" x 6") that I would like to use. I read that teak oil soakes into the wood and hardens as it dries. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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