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Completely understood. It's why I kept reading. Things like needing to rigidize or not to. I finally decided to because there was more on the side of doing it. I thought of it as a sort of insurance policy. But as a person new to this, and understanding that we are dealing with things that can bring metal objects to the temperature of the sun... I jest, but it's serious stuff and I am treating it with a lot of respect. I want to do it right, and I don't know what I don't know. I have learned SO MUCH since the forge has been lit that one can not learn in reading or videos. I am so... intrigued how to mush metal into some form of form (that's somewhat recognizable by humans).

Thanks. I didn't post much until I got things up, running, and got some time on it as I saw some frustration from the League of Curmudgeon for being asked the same things too many times. I tried to read everything I could... some days leading to some mass frustration as there's too many conflicting answers on here. But eventually things click and I moved onto the next puzzle. Matrikote was done in a single layer, but I still have quite a lot left. It went much further than I thought it would. As to the forge cooling too quickly... textures popping off... I hadn't considered this. I can see several places that look almost smooth. So, you might be onto something there. I though I was being crafty. I was trying to protect the burner. So... blocking off the burner... 1. with kaowool. Given the breathing risks, is it okay to be playing with the stuff when cold? I still have some, but I have it in a heavy duty garbage bag to keep the dust contained. I thought one really didn't want that stuff sitting around or played with if you could avoid it. More, if you stuff it into the burner, small pieces and wool dust will be breaking off, which eventually will be fired once the forge is re-lit, meaning that the melting issue comes into play, no? 2. Regardless of if I use the aluminum or wool, do I just just wad up a ball of the stuff and stick it in the T inlet of the burner? Part B. and totally unrelated, (though related)... I have seen it said to shove some kaowool around the burner tube in the containing tube that leads into the forge. This way less air is able to enter, possibly reducing the amount of scale. So, similar question... Do I put the wool in, and rigidize just in that area. There's not a lot of space in there, but I will do it if it helps. I have seen that most of my stuff is looking very textured from the flaking scale. I have been trying to keep the anvil clean of it as to not embed it into the metal while hot, but the stuff that flakes off, leaves a lot of patterns of scale behind it as it doesn't come off in even layers or areas. To that same point, if I am to keep the forge level and not tipped back, I need to deal with this area in between the containing tube and burner tube to the hot air doesn't chimney out that area even though the burner might be sealed off with the wool or aluminum.

Heh... no, I have never hosed it out. I can take a photo... Actually that what I will do next time I light it. My forge tips backwards (by design) so that when I shut it off, it lets the hot just chimney out vs. wanting to head out the burner tube. It's the dust that falls out that I am asking about. I just saw this photo. You can... sort of see the dust on the table. The forge is lit on my driveway about 3 feet from my garage, so no, I have not yet used a CO monitor, but I will get one. I figured that I was getting enough air given the surroundings, but you guys are the education, so I will do it if you feel it's a concern. It's all hot rolled steel so far. For the tube that the burner sits in... that was galvanized. But it sat in some high strength vinegar for nearly a week and neutralized and scrubbed afterwards. I have read here that this was acceptable. Because you know... I read it on the internet, so it has to be true, right? Actually I think that one might have been Frosty though. ;0)

Hey folks, Two somewhat unrelated questions... So, I have been forging for a couple of weeks now. I noticed the accumulation of... stuff on the bottom of the forge. It's a white ash (and scale obviously). My question is... is this normal? Is the dust toxic (any more so than normal dust) and is cleaning out the forge a helpful thing, or does it even matter? Given that there is already warnings about ceramic wool (which yes, I have rigidized and covered with refractory) I figured I should ask as I don't know what I don't know and don't wanna get hurt. I have been wearing a respirator mask thing while doing a lot of the forging, but perhaps this is overkill, but, I am an asthmatic already, I don't want to hose myself. Also having been cooking some metal for a couple of weeks I have noticed that the color has gone from it's pristine white to a smudgy tan(ish) color. Do you ever reapply Metrikote or was the initial coating sufficient? Thanks

I finally have my forge up and running. And... I made a thing. Aside from a couple of nails, this is the first real usable things I have made. About a year ago I saw an opener back on page 45 by VaughnT that really inspired me. There's a world of difference between the one he made and I made... meaning that his is pretty and mine has a sort of dog poop sort of vibe, but hey, it's mine and I made it. I did it from memory and so there's some differences which I will fix the next time out. Sadly, I am out of gas until payday, so I can't make another one yet. But I know for next time to not cut off so much material until I am sure I don't need it. In Vaughn's version, it has enough length to allow a graceful bend back to the slot. I got my tip through the hole and had all sorts of extra, so I cut it off. I should have just backed it off, and let the length remain. Also, from an ergonomics point of view, his has a nice downward slope and then it straightens out along the spine. Lastly, I think I got carried away with the twist. All this pushing metal with relative ease (as compared to when it's cool) kinda went to my head and I lost count of how many twists I was on. Then it started to look like rope, and I went with it, and thought, I bet it looks even better with one more twist, and... here we have it. The punch thing was somewhat tricky, but I am sure that gets easier with practice.

Well, no books like that so... music then, and say Rush and 2112, but just did a search and steel melts around 2750, so that won't work. Hmmm... We need to change the melting point of steel.

Ha... Of course it is. Thanks Ray Bradbury... 451 Totally slipped my mind. I was focused on other things.

Thanks for the replies. So, to all three of you, yes I am working the forge outside for exactly those reasons. The anvil shaped object is inside the garage a couple of steps with a post vise sort of in the middle making the triangle. This way, I only have to move one thing back and forth. The CO detector is a good idea, but I don't plan on burning the forge in the garage. Especially after feeling how much heat comes off the thing. I am still trying to figure out what to do on a rainy day though. But no, not in the garage. Okay, good note on proper terms. It was forge welding vs. forging temps I was asking about. I was working at last night, so no sun to interfere. I worked with some 3/8 or 1/2 square stock (mild steel) too last night ( I was just playing around, so I didn't measure). The metal color was yellow to orange-yellow. I have a fire extinguisher right next to the post vise. So, while I am sure it's been done before, I am working on making the forge base in such a manor that the forge can pivot upright so that the body of the forge acts like a chimney vs. letting the hot air try to head out the burner tube. I have experimented with this the last couple of nights. I left the forge outside for about an hour or so after cleaning up. I went back down and pulled it into the garage, and like you said, keeping it away from everything. But what caused the worry was that it was still 220ish degrees (with laser thermometer) at the point I brought it in. I like the paper idea. It seems a good basic test. More I will test outside the garage while it's still hot to find the range where the exhaust heat still poses a threat of catching something on fire. Another question. I have seen on the board here that looking into the forge might be dangerous due to IR. So, I am one of those guys that loves to zone out and watch the camp fire embers warble and such while camping. It's relaxing. I am finding that the glow of the forge has a similar effect. So... I should probably avoid this eh? You are talking about the shell, not the innards, correct?

Hi. So, yesterday I got to play with my newly built forge for the first time yesterday. I have some some new parent questions. 1. My wife is scared to death of my new hobby. I understand, it makes a wonderful growl and fire comes out of it. But she's scared of me burning down the house. I am trying to be reassuring and taking on practices which will hopefully allow her to relax a little... So, I pull the forge outside of the garage so there's no fire risk from stray heat. My question if you do the same, and if so, how long do you wait until you pull it back into the garage? 2. I have heated some metal up tonight. I was impressed how the color of the metal was so... vibrant. So, I don't have a whole lot of time on it, but the tank feels a little light. I need to get the gauge put onto the regulator so I can see psi, but while I can dial it back, it doesn't seem to heat as hot when I turn it down (yeah, I know... duh). But how wide is the variation between general working temps and forging temps? 3. When people talk about soaking the piece... Something I am noticing is how it might glow bright, but then when you grab it with tongs there's a band where the tongs grabbed said object. So does that mean that it's actually not as hot in the center, or is that just because the tongs pulled that much heat? 4. I bought a burner flare from Larry Zoeller. I notice that it is glowing red the whole time the forge is running. Is this normal? I know that the burner should be out of the forge, and it pretty much is... But the flare tip is just inside, where the refractory begins... just the tip.

Thank's Mikey! So to be clear, go ahead and weld the full seam, and just drill a hole as the small hole is more or less all that's needed... and all of this is to satisfy your OCD, correct? ;0D Heh... I am usually the one to make a project take 12 times as long as it should (making sure that everything is in it's proper place). In the last couple of years, I have been forcing myself to back off a little, so I saw a place where perhaps I could just let things be. But fortunately I was saved by a fellow perfectionist. Thanks for keeping me square.

Hey all, So... I have finished my wool insulation and last night I worked with the refractory. Once again, thinking how it will go, and how it actually goes are two different things. Anyway, it's now sitting in a plastic bag curing away to crispy hardness. My question is about my weld line (forge is a 20# propane tank). I chopped the top off to install the wool as is customary. When I got it all rigidized and happy, I tack welded it back together. I have seen a lot of folks lay a full bead all the way around the forge. I have left it just as tacks for now. In the Forges 101 thread, it's mentioned to drill a hole for steam. My thinking is if the tacks are sufficient for strength, then I will leave it as is so steam can escape freely, and I have the benefit of not having to cut the whole circumference at whatever time I need to rebuild the forge. Any thoughts?

Thanks guys. It was the fibers that I was worried about more than anything. This is why I asked. Yes I am covering it with Kast-o-Lite 30 and Plistex. I will move ahead then. I may have to cut back the area around the burner hole as it's kind of restrictive and I want to be able to aim the burner once everything is in place and I can see my target. I spent... more time than I wish to admit reading the Forges 101. I re-read a lot of it a couple weekends ago as I was gearing up to do this. Once I was in the process it was like all the plans went out the window as it cut differently than I thought it would and the rigidizer sprayed far easier than I thought it would... It's the difference between tv land and reality. But it's been a fun experience so far. I can't wait to use the forge. It's been a long time in coming. Thanks Frosty and IDF&C for all the time you invest in us!!!

After too many months of reading and planning and and and... I have finally started working on the forge. I have the first layer of ceramic wool in place (20# propane tank) and have fired it. I made my own (with fumed silica and water in a spray bottle) with food coloring (purple)(because red and blue make... ). I guess in my mind I thought rigidized would mean like it was a hardened surface... like bread becoming toast sort of thing. Is this not the case? Is sort of mushy acceptable? I roasted it for a pretty good while and most of the food coloring has disappeared. And yes, it IS firmer than when it went in. I just had a mental picture as to what it might feel like and this is not it. There are some places where the food coloring has not gone away, like the edges. But it is as firm as the rest of it, so is this okay?

New member but somewhat regular lurker here. Just happened upon this thread. So... I have been on the hunt for an old Willy's for quite a while. I go through phases. This past year was the worst case of it I have ever had, and my family made arrangements so that I could pick one up. I am still hoping to find the miracle "oh, I have had this M-38A1 hiding in my barn for 50 years and it still runs great" but... reality says probably not. I have had a couple of chances, but nothing 1. in my price range, and 2. nothing within my ability to fix. I am want one to settle into learning how to fix this or that, not wanting to be in the deep end from the word GO. BUT... About 5 months ago I was talking to a guy who was selling a 59(ish) CJ-5. It still had the battery box behind the hood and the cutout on the driver side. This was just before they removed the box n smoothed out the cowell. But it was essentially a 31A1. It even had a aluminum hard top. I have never seen something like this on a Jeep, so I am thinking it was after market. So... I had been talking to the owner through the week, and he was telling me about the issues and the things he had fixed. And while there would have been some issues (there always is) it would have been a great base to start with right from the start. I got more photos, and did something you should never do... I fell in love with the thing. I was snooping the thing in photoshop just trying to get every last drip of info about it and what it might need, or what it had, or or or... I didn't say it to him... but I wanted it BAD. It was Thursday, I agreed to meet him Saturday morning in the town he lived in (about 2 hours away). If I decided to buy it I had lined up a buddy with a trailer to come pick me (and it) up. I woke up early that Saturday to go "take a look". I called him as I was pulling out of the driveway. He then informed me "Oh, I sold it last night". While I get it, he had someone with cash in hand sitting right in front of me, but dang, he could have at least called and let me keep my Saturday sleep in. More, I grew up with the concept of giving someone the right of first refusal. I guess that doesn't exist any longer. I was heart broken. I know... I know... I should not ever fall in love with a vehicle before you buy it. It's like... what? Rule #1. But it was one that all my little tick boxes had been checked off and I was all in. My jeep needs settled down a little bit again and I moved on to other things. I will circle back around again. It's more of a matter of when. I have this blacksmithing desire that has popped back up, and it's the current hotness. One day though... one day.

Ok... BONUS tip # 2 , not tip # 2. I thought you were saying Respect the elders (tip # 2). I just re-reread your request about BONUS tip # 2. The one about NOT tagging. Ugh... Okay. Right so... I though I had been somehow disrespectful earlier and wasn't understanding how. But no, to layer things on, I was being disrespectful by calling out people, Annnnd after being warned once by JHCC, I then 'at' called him in the process. So, yeah. Hi, how does one spell noob? Sigh. One of my other hobbies is referbing old pinball and arcade machines. In that forum, there's tons of tagging. Really, I did read the list. More than once. But, I will admit scanning that one (bonus # 2) because I already 'knew' how to use the 'at' symbol. I apologize to Frosty for doing the same. Well, if I am going to goof something up, man... I will do it with full effect. Okay, illiteracy issues put aside for a moment, was the minimal grinding a bad thing, or was this one legit?

Oh man, No, no disrespect was intended. I even did the little winky thing... I am actively too young on this forum and know my place. More, I have been on enough forums to know the personalities that show up. I also know that when a person of several million posts tells you something, you listen because chances are, that they might know something. As far as forums go, I am generally the guy who tries to add some humor (ironic and /or idiotic), and it usually in the form of a xxxx poor pun, but when it comes to helping others, pitches in where he can. I apologize if you were offended by anything I spoke (wrote).

Heh... I read and searched, and researched a ton prior to even looking for a vise. I had read the READ THIS FIRST a few times. I had seen you guys tell people to READ THIST FIRST, so, man, I was gonna READ THAT FIRST so I didn't get told... But hey, I did have my location listed, and provided all the details I could about the vise, so... I tried. Oh well. ;0) Anyway, thanks for the welcome. Frosty: no I didn't take it as a diss. I didn't do any heavy grinds. Sadly this was done before the warning. It was only superficial in effect. The grind was at the hinge where there was something (looks like weld splatter). Here's a before and after of what was done. But otherwise, I have not, and will not do anything.

Ah, good question, and yes. It was a wire wheel. I did use a grinding wheel to take off the weld splatter which you can see in the first picture near the hinge. But, yeah, all the other bits were a wire wheel. Thanks for the suggestion.

So, I spent the day cleaning the vise. It's amazing what kind of crap can acumulate in one of these things. I am not sure how many times a clean up has been done, but I suppose there's the real possibility that this is the first time so... hundred year old dirt? I wore a mask while I was grinding off the crud. It's a little scary though. At one point when I took off my mask, it smelled like a farm. Animal dung. So, I am thinking perhaps it came from a farm, or... who knows. But it didn't smell good. I have a little more to clean at which point I will post a video of the effort. Sadly, I did kill off an angle grinder today. It's why I didn't get finished. But I bought a new one and will carry on tomorrow. For the knowledgable, I want to confirm, I have read some conflicting thoughts, but it seems that for the most part, the thought is, don't use grease on the screw threads, correct? I have read oil. But what kind of oil? Motor Oil? For the rest of the pieces that I was able to finish today, I used BLO. I love the color the metal took when I did this. Do I wipe the remainder off, or do I let it just sort of dry and leave a coating?

Hey all, This is my first post, so it'll be about a post (myeah... it's a vise joke, sorry, they wont get any better). Been lurking for a while, and finally am on track to get going into blacksmithing as a new hobby. I am a maker by nature, so this will be venturing into a new form of making. So, I have been playing this somewhat slowly. I have kept a pretty constant watch on craigslist and the Facebook Market watching for something to turn up. I watched this vise for a little while. I called him on thanksgiving and he said he still had it, so last weekend I went and picked my new (old) vise. It's a Iron City and a little over 4 inches on the jaws. The guy wanted $200 for it, but agreed to $150. It's a little over 43 inches tall (seen as 42 in the photo, but it was hooked to the ring on the peg) and I would place it at about 75#. The only thing missing is the locking key which I can't see being too difficult to make. I am looking forward to getting it cleaned up. There is a rather heavy gouge on the key thing that locks up the screw box (sorry for lack of proper terminology). Theres some thing on the center screw threads, but for the most part (in my unknowing eyes) It looks to be in pretty good shape. Or better stated, I'd like to think it's in pretty decent shape. You can probably provide some better perspective on it. Anyway, I have been enjoying reading this forum so far. Seems to be an incredible resource.