Psi

It could be that, as the T that I have is slightly off. It could also be some other simpler things, like needing a bit of a different burn chamber, as it is longer than Frosty lays out in his document. It may be something larger, but no way to know until I start fiddling. The thing that made me really question it is looking at the burn slopes. The slope for the Z-Burner is not as steeped as that of the side arm, leaving me to think that there is room for tweaking either of them.

Ahh. Thank you for the info on HYB. I couldn't find any info on it anywhere, and was rather dubious. I've had cancer once already and don't wanna roll the dice again. Hell, I would rather try some of the "homebrew"-styled ITC mixes that I have seen posted here and there, than fiddle with something that has a large number of unknowns that have potential health risks. As for the design of the burner, your correct about the first part, with the rotational chokes. The Z-Burner vs Side-Arm is a different matter though, and its something that I don't feel is as simple as saying A is better than B, at least not right now. The BTU is higher on the Side-Arm, while the flame appears to be hotter on the Wye-Pipe based design. The idea of entrainment makes sense, but even Zoeller says he can't say why it is. I have an idea, but am not sure how to go about fixing it just right away, thus why I am deciding on the side-arm instead of the Wye base. In the side arm, the MIG tip is not perfectly centered, since the Ward reducer tie itself is just a bit off center due to its design. I have no idea if I can fix it, but I definitely want to try, and being that the only large difference between the two is that single piece, even if I decide to switch, it will not be a difficult task. I enjoy learning and experimenting when there is merit. With all of Mikey's comments, it became evident that there would be no way to make any form of progression in that design and attempting it would just be silly. I feel it may not be that simple with the very small differential in the other two. I would love to look over any other info on them and definitely think that there is more to learn, in reference to the abilities of the two burners in question.

I took the advice that you gave and started fresh, and have been looking at a few different style designs. I did find some plans for a Modified Side Arm, and it looks very nice, and looks to be a great burner from the btu/psi charts. Does anyone have experience with it? Ideally in the future, I will have a ribbon burner, but for now at least this seems like a good one to start with.

Ok cool. I was just really worried. The first time I ever messed with big boy heat was when me and a friend made a melting furnace. We got things too hot and were a few inches from a very bad day. Since then I always try to make sure that my bases on thermals are covered. I know people use itc100 but have many people here tried the one hybridburners sells, the hyb-uv stuff? I can’t seem to find info on it anywhere.

Oh. That makes a ton more sense. Now I understand what you meant. The change with the burner though is the least of my worries though. I’m going to be getting the peices to change to a sliding choke if needed, but the “change” I’m making is one the he “patched” for lack of a better term. In the previous models of the trex it had the revolving style choke that was adjustable at the top. It was more fussy and tended to take a lot more finesse to dial in, so to speak. I just like the design of it and the small difference in efficiency that may be lost doesn’t bother me too much, as he still offers them to buy in that style just as custom requests since he no longer carries the parts. The big thing that worries me right now though is the heat that the wool will be under. I can stand having to remake a part of the burner or switch to a different product, but the thought of the wool degrading and failing critically scares the hell out of me. I should have probably changed it to the first topic, instead of second to indicate that though.

Yea. The forge itself looks really nice and it must work decently well for it to be featured there. The only thing that has me unsure of it is the depth, as I was intending for something a little deeper. I may just go with 2 of the burners, and see if I can find some happy medium, like cutting one once the forge is up to temp or something. I don't understand the second thing you said though. Are you referring to having a fairly neutral enviroment inside, versus an oxygen rich or Poor one, which could cause flame to leave the inner chamber? I'm sorry about my lack of knowledge on that part, but that is the only thing I could think you meant.

I took into account a lot of the feedback and post on my previous topic and am revisiting to get a few things clarified before I go ahead. 1. Took the advice and found a plan that I like over at Hybridburner's page for a box style forge but with arched ceilings. The one thing I was curious about was that it only has one burner and has a inner volume of about 380 inches or so. I'm going to be making something very similar to the older version of the 3/4" T-Rex, with the screw choke instead of slide, as I just prefer it. I do know it is fussier, but its something I just rather. The question I have was the simple one of will one burner be enough? I remember seeing that even extremely efficient setups can do 300-350, but am worried about the ability at that size, and even more so when I know I may be making it a bit longer. Should I consider going to two, maybe making them smaller to compensate? 2. I will be using 2x 1" Layers of Wool, with rigidizer, 3/8-1/2" layer of Kast-O-Lite, and a layer or two of ITC-100 / HYB-UV / Metrikote. I was lucky enough to get some wool free, but it is not what I was looking for. Its 2300 degree grade. Is it safe to use? I know that my forge will get past that temp, and I know that there is a formula which could do all the work to tell me the exact temps, but I am neither knowing of that formula, or good enough at math to work through it. The main thing I need to know is if I can safely use it, or if I should look into buying some 2600 degree one. Once more, thanks a ton for all the comments and help that I got, and look forwards to being able to post my work soon-ish.

Yea, I am completely ignorant and thought the "Ties" were the names for single rails and the wood referred to as beams. Sorry about the mixup. Though, I will say from experience that the ties make great starter kindle for camp fires haha.

Hey guys, still green with posting. My question is rather simple, after a trip to my local junk / salvage yard, I couldn't find much, and since I drive a little Civic, just pulling out a car part wasn't really an option. I then asked him if he had any railroad ties, to which he asked if I worked for the government or something. Point is after a good 10-15 minute conversation, I am now in possession of knowledge that is just dumb; Selling railroad iron and ties to a scrap yard is illegal in Louisiana. This just seems odd and silly, but would any of you have any further ideas about possibilities to get one? I really do like the look the look and pretty much everything about the rail-made anvils and would love any input on the topic.

The plan aspect I was referring to is my design and the one thing that I can promise is that I don't intend to hurry and looked at a lot of information before deciding on my design, and even more when I was working on the post. First off, thanks for the correction on the layering aspect. Your post within the 101 topic said 2" but I never saw within that post about having it within multiple layers. As for the idea of needing it between the layers, I was fairly sure that I wouldn't, but could not find any information until now that gave a specific and hard answer. It seemed like a poor choice due to the extra addition of space, but with the way the satanite description was worded, I assumed that it could be used in lieu of a rigidizer, and thus made me wonder that. As for the basis for my statement about cylindrical forges being more efficient, there seems to be multiple post here on IFI, as well as multiple other sites that attest to this, that the use of a cylinder shaped inner is more fuel efficient due to the way the fire burns within the space. I am sadly not as eloquent as a lot of people on these boards in terms of the thermodynamics, but I do see that one thing being said rather unanimously. I know that it was painfully obvious when using a furnace to melt down metals, that an inner space with any corners at all hurt the fuel efficiency, thus hurting max temps when using things like waste oil, and forced air burners. With all that information though, Questions 2, 3, and 4 are pretty much done thankfully, and the only things left are the inner dimensions and the inner lining compositions / which refractory would be best for this specific build. There are 3 things that your reply brought up though. Firstly, you mentioned the idea about not trusting reviews and the like. Is there something wrong with the John Carman-style burner that I am not seeing? I have seen a good deal of burners using the reducer coupling ideas, granted I have seen an equal amount that use flared piping. If there is that large of a difference, is there a place that I can find this information at, other than Mikey's book, maybe a technical paper or the like? The main reason I am asking is because the only thing that seems different is the accelerator, as both burners have a choke, one being a sleeve and the other a cap. Secondly, I noticed that you didn't mention Satanite, and instead use the Kastolite 30. Is there a particular advantage to this over the Satanite, or is the difference small enough that its a personal preference thing? The information I can find makes it feel like they are different, and I have even found some post on different sites that use kastolite 30 like you said, but also put a coat or two of satanite after curing, onto the hot face. With the way that you worded things, I'm slightly confused as Satanite, Kastolite, and Bubble Alumina are all sold as different things on High Temp Tools. Thirdly, I think you misunderstood about the Zirconia I was referring to. I know that a high zirconia percentage must be present within the hot face. I had done some digging and found a post that Mikey had made about Zirconia Oxide, and its ability to act as a heat barrier, thus why I asked that question. It wasn't about the Silicate, as I've already looked up the info on that, along with some of the different homemade combinations that could outperform some mass produced ones, like Plistex, or something near that spelling.

My previous forge I tried to make in the style of older forges, with basic materials and used a homemade refractory out of local clay, Kaolin, sand, and a couple of other simple things that could have been gotten back then, though nothing really was "As it was" since most was bought. I used it with wood Charcoal and me and a close friend learned on it, since we had a large amount of extra metal, as he enjoyed using foundrys and old-style melting systems like the viking thing, that they used to make what I think is called crucible steel if I remember right. As for the insulation things you sent, thank you. I had saw the post frosty made in that topic, regarding the use of 2" Kaowool but was somewhat confused about if layering would be a problem as there are 2" thick sheets. Also I did not find any thing within there about the specifics of the rigidizer and even found some evidence of people elsewhere skipping that and going straight to Satanite, which I didn't fully understand until I spent some time looking at all the products on HighTempTools. It lists satanite there as being used to seal Ceramic Wool, thus why I was so confused when I assumed you needed to rigidize before doing that. My reasoning for only using the 1.5 inches instead of the two is the fairly decent amount of volume that I can save by doing so, and if I understand some of Mikeys post correctly, it should still work fine with the plans I have, along with the anchoring bolts. There was something that I did forget to ask and that was if anyone had any luck with using Zirconium Dioxide on the inside steel shell of the forge, to act as a temperature reflecting surface, as well as a way to minimize heat transfer out of the forge, and into the metal. The one thing that does confuse me about your response was what you said about Satanite. Is it a normal, basic Refactory just like Kast-o-Lite? I had assumed it was but the literature on HighTemp and some of the spec sheets I've found on it make it seem like something that should be used over a castable or a sealer for a ceramic board/brick/wool.

Ahh that was my bad. I thought it had updated. It should be now. If not it is in Louisiana, in the US.

Thank you for letting me know about the names. Since the option popped up without me looking for it I assumed it was the correct way to respond, but I have fixed the post above to be inline with the rules. I was talking about the first post that you made though, and was curious about anything that may have been wrong with my question that caused you to link the main rules post.

frosty : Thanks for the welcome. While I do understand that you think my "plans" are guess work, I don't feel as though they are. I have done a ton of reading, the pros and cons of different insulation materials, IR reflectivity and its effects, and even the 101 articles on this site. I will start of by rectifying one thing very clearly - - I am not just watching Youtube videos, and replicating things. Plain and simple. Had I known the polarizing effect of that one segment of my post I would have left it out, and only provided it for the means of showing the burner style and design more accurately than words alone could. - Yes, I linked that video to give a basic idea of the burner that I am looking at building. I have done research on the different types, and have chosen this one over a ribbon. The response that you gave about the burner design being a bad one is very odd though, as this is one that I have seen used and pushed by a few different smiths. The only real problem that I can think of is the idea of it being a T construction instead of single isolated lines. The burner itself is designed by John Carman and his products look and seem to act top notch. I am aware that forges designed in a cylinder style are more efficent, which is not what I am debating, but I have chosen to build the "Box" style forge as that is what I want. I understand the reasoning and engineering in the propane tank builds, but it is not something that I am wanting to replicate, at least not for this project, as I do have an idea I want to try for a tank-based design. My design was originally an octagonal design with an angled entry for the burners, but I thought that it would be too hard to make work correctly. The forge design doesn't stump me as much as the insides of it do, thus why most of my questions have to do, mainly, with the insulating materials, which was not really touched on in any way. While yes, I will definitely concede that I do not know near as much as many on this site, and am a novice in the practical sense, I don't find it helpful to be told I don't know enough to know good from bad within the first 50 words of a reply, especially when there was no real discussion about any of the questions that I put out there. I do definitely want to discuss things, as I know that there are people here with great amounts of knowledge, such as one post that I found by yourself, Frosty, detailing your ideas for coatings to sacrificial floors and other things involving non-premade high-temp ceramics/coatings, which led to me looking into the possibility of making a homebrewed one, as I said in my 6th question. That being said, I'm also not going to just be cool with getting reamed on things that I know are opinion-based. These thing such as the merits of box vs cylinder, which I found stated here on IFI, and the validity of the burner, outside of the point I stated in concern to the junction of them on a single line. I do look forward to discussing things more, and do hope any one can weigh in and help with some of the questions that I put forward. iron : Please see the first three paragraphs above for the response in regards to your comment about watching videos. As to the link that you published, it is one of the post that I read before posting this. I did not read the full thread, just the top post of rules, so if there was something posted later in the thread, just shoot me the page or post and I can look over it. It wasn't my intention to break a rule or skip over info, and am sorry if I did so. Wayne : Thanks Wayne! I had already found your site before posting here, and depending on what info I can gleam from this topic I was already planning on ordering a couple of things from you, most notably an IR coating, and possibly the Kast-o-Lite. I will definitely let you know once I figure those things out though.

Hello forums, Im somewhat new here, but have been following blacksmithing for a while. Finally after a while without it, me and my fiance will be owning our own home shortly, and I am planning of remaking a forge there, but I was curious about a few things that I can't seem to find info on. I think I have everything figured out with the burner, and will be using a dual venturi burner system almost exactly like the video at this link. The forge he built looks really great, and if I didnt have easy access to Steel and a few different refractory materials I would have just duplicated it. Link to Original Video - Will Mathews : Propane Bottle Forge w/ Burner Build 1. Are the following good dimensions for my first forge at my home? I will be using it as a main forge for a while, and once I start selling again and make a larger forge it will be mainly used to forge weld Damascus and the like. - Height : 6 - 7 Inches (Current Plan : 6.5) - Width : 7 - 8.5 Inches (Current Plan : 7.5) - Depth : 9 - 10 Inches (Current Plan : 9.5) - Sacrificial Floor Idea 1 : Hard Firebrick @ 9" x 4.5" x 1.25" ( Rated at 3000f ) - Sacrificial Floor Idea 2 : Hard Firebrick @ 9" x 4.5" x 2.5" (Rated at 3000f) - Sacrificial Floor Idea 3 : High Alumina Kiln Shelf @ 9" x 4" x 1" (Rated at Cone 11 / ~2430f) - Inner Area at Current Dimensions : 463.125 Cubic Inches - Inner Area with Sacrificial Floors as a Void : 412.5 : 361.875 : 422.625 cu/Inches 2. Is it safe to use multiple layers of Kaowool on top of each other? I was wanting a 1.5 Inch thick Kaowool layer, and since there isn't a 1.5 inch thick kaowool, I would need to stack 3 .5 inch layers and was trying to make sure about the validity of this idea before I go with it. 3. Is the normal 2300 and 2600 degree wool fine to use, or should I try and get a higher temp one? 4a. Do I need a rigidizer if I use the Satanite, or can I get by without it? 4b. Do I need to use said rigidizer / Satanite between layers of Kaowool, if I use multiple ones. 5. I was trying to get some feed back on my wall and floor compositions. As I said, I will be using it for things such as forge welding, so my floor composition will reflect this. - Side Walls : .125" Steel Plate > 1.5" Kaowool > .5" Satanite* > .125" / 3 Coats ITC-100* - Top Wall : .125" Steel Plate > 1.5" Kaowool > .25" Satanite* > .042" / 1 Coats ITC-100* - Forge Floor : .125" Steel Plate > 1.5 or 2" Kaowool > .5" Inch Satanite* > .125" Bubble Alumina or Other High Anti-Corrosive Coating. 6. The materials I have listed for refractory / IR coats are both loose choices right now and can be changed. Is there a better material that I can use, such as Kast-o-Lite, or even a homemade castable / coating? I have access to a fair number of different materials, like Kaolin Clay, Alum-based Cements, Zirconia powder, etc. Well that about covers the questions I had. I am sorry for overlooking anything that may turn up, but I did take a few hours to try and find most of the information and couldn't find concrete answers to most of the questions.