Nick Owen

5 hours ago, JHCC said:

It's YOUR blade, Nick -- make it the way you want it!

Pretty much how I was thinking.. I couldn't find pics of ones in a different style but as Latticino posted (thank you!) they clearly exist  Can't help thinking how much my blade looks like a butter knife compared to the others with such a stubby point but it's modelled after a kitchen knife I really like using... less likely to severely pierce myself as well  

Hi, 

Just getting to towards the end of my first knife. Needs heat treat and grinding, I was intending on bending the handle forwards and curling it under the finger as normal but then I think that the blade would be too shallow for chopping then. 

I've looked around at hundred of images of blacksmith knives and I can't find any pictures where the handle is bent upwards into where the palm would be. It would look odd but probably make the blade more useful. 

Has anyone got any pictures of a blacksmith knife curved that way to base a plan off? Otherwise I'll just go for the traditional look and try to draw the blade depth down a little next time. 

Car boot sale again and try to pick up some long wooden handled items like rakes etc. I can only imagine my first few will be crap/want to fly off so might be best to have some cheapy rubbish to practice on first  

On 5/28/2018 at 8:36 PM, SFC Snuffy said:

I made a couple of similar choppers for family members and had many of the same issues with cold shuts.

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one! 

I think if I just keep rotating and little more as I bring the shoulder down it will be OK, I think I neglected one side for too long and kept doing 1/4 turns back and forth instead of going around and checking each face.

I have been fiddling around with my first heat treats and tempering... watching the temper colours move across the metal is rather hypnotising, I almost missed my chance to fix the temper because I carried away watching it the second time  

If you're making a knife I can definitely recommend making a herb chopper (an herb chopper for the other side of the pond) or a blacksmith knife as it means you can focus on the blade skills before learning how to put handles on and probably wasting time on putting handles on something that is ugly and not optimally functional. I'll be making a few more herb choppers/blacksmith knives to get those skills down and then moving on to a chef's knife. 

Herb chopper V1. 

Its full of cold shuts and it's ugly but not bad for a first attempt. It was my first attempt at forging a blade and my first proper heat treat and temper. If I hadn't screwed up getting so many cold shuts as I put a shoulder in to draw the handle out I also wouldn't have ended up with such deep hammer marks that scarred the surface. V2 will be much better!  

I recently bought a leg vise and got it set up. It looks almost identical to yours. 

When I first got it the jaws were really stiff and wouldn't spring open when I unwound the threads. I just took it all apart which may seem daunting at first but is really simple, take photos so you know what goes where and then it's just common sense. Once I had it apart I just scraped away the old crud and greased it all up a bit. Put it all together and bibbity bobbety boo. 

If it's still stiff there are videos on youtube for fixing the spring or forging new ones. There is little to no rocket science behind them and they are amazing once set up. It's the third arm you need so bad for a lot of operations  

Have you figured out your choice of mounting it yet? 

Nice oven!

Most of those projects should be pretty fun. I've been thinking about how I would tackle a shovel myself, without a swage block to form the shovel around I might see if I can just carve a depression into the top of a log/chunk of wood and form it in that. 

I have somehow injured by back so not sure if I will be forging this weekend either. I did a similar thing to the other side of my back a few months back and it suddenly got a lot worse and had me unable to move for a week so probably shouldn't push it.... sucks as tomorrow will be the first day of my holiday (teacher)  

On 5/24/2018 at 5:36 PM, Jon Kerr said:

 Not yet. Honestly, I cant work out how to hold the workpiece, hammer and chisel at the same time. Is there some technique to this?

Coming along nicely! 

Metal was just too soft, I knew it would be as I took the stock from a box of machining steel... really soft  I figured that I might be able to get away with using it a few times before it needed dressing up but it dinged right away! No good but the drift works fine. 

If your forge is ready better get on with those tongs! 

Most of the projects I'm working on at the moment I can work at the end of a bar/rod and get away with just holding the bar between my legs whilst I use my hand for other operations, everything else just has to balance across the anvil, something which is a lot more difficult on a wee railroad track. You'll just have to get creative at using metal clamps or something as a hold down. 

It's frustrations like these that make or break people, personally I knew it would break me which is why I just went right for a traditional shaped anvil for the hardy holes, can easily make up some holdfasts for them. I'm sure there are easy hold downs for rail road tracks as well. Could ask in the forums!  

20 hours ago, Jon Kerr said:

Understood. I just read a long blog post about "How to break your vice." and had never realised how serious an issue this is!

Looking at eBay prices the vice is worth a small fortune so I definitely want to keep it good.

Just keep looking for a leg vise. I just did a fresh search on eBay for 'leg vise' 'blacksmith vise' 'post vise' and also for 'vice' spelling variants. You'll find a bargain eventually and a good post vise can a good beating

Have you tested your chisel against metal yet? I tested my punch and drift today, drift works great but could do with a shallower profile to speed it up a bit, the punch sucked. That's the problem with found metal though

45 minutes ago, JHCC said:

Lateral stability is a critical -- if frequently overlooked -- aspect of vise stand design.

When I get to needing something more robust than what it can stand up to, I will lift a patio slab and drop it into a hole with some more concrete. The slight wobble whilst twisting/filing is already annoying me so it won't be long  

I already knew that it wouldn't be stable side to side, the tub it's in is longer forward/backwards so I just angle my work to be in that direction. Ghetto but it works 

22 hours ago, Jon Kerr said:

Haha, I’m a wargamer/roleplayer also! Not so much D&D for me- mainly Warhammer as I love the modelling/painting side. I also GM a Star Wars RPG though.

I used to play a bit of Warmachine but now I just DM a 5E game once every four weeks. We usually only get through about 4 encounters due to ordering food, general chat etc but we usually have a good time. I like to treat my players with dice boxes, special dice, 3D printed models etc  Bottle openers are a good way to practice and making the tools to do it right has been fun, should be making my first few attempts tomorrow/Friday. 

Neighbours and noise are a big concern for me too. Although the neighbours grandson (early 20s) popped his head over the fence and was pretty excited by it all so it can't be all complaints going on over there! They have a lot of little dogs that bark every time there's movement outside so I think they can live with a few hammer thumps and the occasional scream from me  

I managed to pick up a leg vise for £30 off of ebay last week. I spend half that on a tiny little engineers vise, useless thing!  I had to take the vise apart a few times to clean it up and loosen the spring a little but it works great now. If you want to see the most ghetto vise stand ever, I can put up a pic. I bought a set of steel (rather flimsy but perfectly sized) speaker stands, drilled, bolted it in, put them in a plastic tub and backfilled with concrete. It wobbles a lot but its sturdy enough for twists/filing! If I dig a pit for the tub to sit in it will probably be stable too!

18 hours ago, Jon Kerr said:

..... I can't wait to get going again. Tomorrow, hopefully.

Show us what you make  

I've just finished beating the largest metal I have so far to make a punch and a drift for making a few palm bottle openers that CC ironworks has just put a video up for. I have a tabletop games night once a month and thought I would make one each for my buddies who come over. 

Can always square up hex bolts whilst giving them a hammer finish  

Man.. I would love to have access to power tools  Going to get an angle grinder and a basic bench sander next month hopefully. Approaching the summer holidays and it's never cheap being a teacher with a kid means long periods of time sitting on my wallet.

Hot rasping rips metal down really quickly.. just watch your fingers  Punches are really easy, anything with the shape you need on the end will do short term. Knock some of those clips into a tapered point with a flat and you can knock holes through easily enough, they just wont last long. If they are good steel they can be hardened though. Plenty of guides on here for that. If you don't have a pritchel hole for punching through to just bend a bit of square bar back on itself to create a U shape with a space in it wide enough for your punch to fit through and that will do just fine  

The easy tongs that Glenn posted is a great guide. I think that anyone could make those and even turn them into something really good by simply drawing out the reins into something more comfortable and tweaking them to fit. If you don't have round stock you could even get away with bolting them closed until you do. 

11 minutes ago, Jon Kerr said:

Nick- HUGE thanks for taking the time for such a comprehensive reply. I'll definitely take all of that on board, thanks.

I'm trying to get started without spending any money, really. I'm literally using a claw hammer and scrap steel at the moment. The dream is that I can gradually make the tools I need (starting with tongs!  I REALLY need some tongs...!). Hoping I can get an old lump hammer at a local car-boot sale and turn it into something resembling a reasonable  blacksmithing hammer.... 

Thanks again, Thomas.

You're most welcome. Just keep asking questions  

I will be doing the same tool wise but time is precious to me so figured I would start with a decent hammer (or three) and a pair of functional wolf jaw tongs. If you really want to go the route of building up slowly there are a few good videos on no tong tongs (making tongs without owning tongs), Black Bear Forge on Youtube has a good video on them if I recall. I managed to snag a really long set of pliers that I actually use more often than my tongs (most of my work so far allows me to just hold the end of the bar/rod most of the time). 

If you're looking at the car boot you will also see files/rasps quite often, don't be put off by a little surface rust, once you get them on hot steel they soon shine up. Hot rasping and filing will be your friend if you're looking to go in on a budget as you might not have access to power tools. 

Forging up some punches/drifts are good beginner projects, they might not last long on your first go/need dressing up frequently but again they save the need for power tools. 

If you find a friendly smith nearby you might even be able to talk into forging your tongs using their equipment to make the process easier/faster. 

What kinds of stuff are you looking to make? Your photo suggests knives? 

I can see the bag of lumpwood charcoal in the foreground so that wasn't your problem. I use coke. More difficult to get hold or but it doesn't spit/smoke anywhere near as much as when I use charcoal. 

OOo what Thomas said above is a really good point. Watching videos on the different layers of the solid fuel forge was an eyeopener. Changed a lot for me and worth hunting down/asking more about! 

Welcome to the hobby!

I'm just a few weeks in and I think I'm making pretty good progress with techniques and tools. Be prepared to be sucked into wanting more and more tools... I have overspent so much this month buying vises/forge/hammers/PPE etc

From my incredibly limited perspective here is some of advice that I will echo from what others have told me or you will see elsewhere:

1) Classes - can't stress enough how much I was initially against taking one but I took a day one and will be booking more soon. Taking the lessons from the horses mouth not only means you progress so much quicker but you build confidence and have an array of items that you can practice on without just hammering out a hot, useless mess for the scrap pile. 

2) PPE - safety gear is your friend. I've already had a few close calls that I have audibly thanked my equipment from protecting me from (I always talk to inanimate objects, that's normal right?  ) I've picked up steel I shouldn't have, had metal chips and scale ping off of my glasses and hit burning steel that showers me in hot mess that would at the very least/best case burn a hole through the shirts I'm wearing. I'm accident prone and sometimes just daft.. I actually wanted to see why you don't hit hard metal for myself. It really can chip/spark quite nastily.

3) Watch what your left (tong) hand is doing. Move the material, not the hammer when you can. Moving the hammer affects your aim, tires you quicker and means you (read: me) are more likely to land your hammer off angle and leave dinks in your work. 

4) Don't swing hammers that are too big, work up. On the first few days I really hurt my girly arms ("You have a woman's hand!) swinging a hammer I wasn't used to, my finger still hasn't recovered. I only recently realised that you can also just let the hammer landing do a lot of the work, you don't have to force it down (derp), the effort is in the lift, not so much on the drop. Obviously this isn't true when you're trying to move a lot of metal/quickly/small hammer. 

5) Be prepared for failure. Ponder what went wrong. Hot cut it off and just start again. I've been redoing forks over and over until I'm happy (still not) with them. New hardy hot cut will help immensely with that (Thanks Iron Dwarf!)

6) Find local people to talk to/work with. Still trying to find a few more locals myself but if you ever happen to be 2 hours north-west of where you currently are, my door is open for a hammer swing and a beer! 

7) If you do end up buying a solid fuel forge instead of building up, I highly recommend Iron Dwarf's forges. I have one and it is super simple to light, maintain and can be super efficient at spot heating small parts or build up into a roaring forge weld. Excellent price too. Contact him pm. 

Most of all, have a target and work towards it whilst having fun!

Oh and in response to your recent replies. Charcoal is fine but get lump wood charcoal. Charcoal briquettes are pants. 

Thanks guys  I only wondered for the purposes of making bolts looks older/more fitting for hand forged items, no way would I use them as a source of steel. I get my known steel from a certain Iron Dwarf

Just gotta know where to look I suppose! 

Members wise there are still too few around these parts though! 

Probably true, I never really see much in the way of old world craft stuff around my area though. I'm sure they're squirrelled away somewhere but seems like most of the forging equipment makes it out to the south or north of England. I bet you probably find British ideas of something being too far away pretty quaint but I rarely drive more than 10 minutes anywhere around here. Iron Dwarf is my closest forge guy and that's an exceptionally long (  ) 40 minute journey from me!  

I wish there were a few more members from around my area on here!

How come you have more than one anvil? (If you don't mind me asking!) 

I found one, plus looking through I saw a few comments about chrome plating and figured that SS is a steel/chrome alloy and that might pose issues. Happy to be corrected, that's what I was hoping for, no matter how basic it may seem to someone else. 

Either way, I'll keep my 'very basic questions' to myself in future. Seems like people could just choose to ignore or answer in the time that it takes to slap someone down for it though. 

As an aside I have several quotes from IFI about SS potentially being toxic or not being toxic under normal conditions without expanding on what those conditions are. Hence asking straight up, so I did do my homework by the way, I could do more easily but figured I would ask both at the same time, sorry.

50 minutes ago, Steve Sells said:

you need to back up and read more on IFI and forget You-tube, you keep asking questions a that are very basic knowledge, worried about forging stainless steel, or chrome moly steels?  I find it hard to believe you are really ready for higher allow steels. Slow down and educate yourself, you are moving too fast with some of these things. you learn before you use them

That's exactly what I'm trying to do  Banging a bolt out of perfect machine shape is not  diving in the deep end, I'm not trying to fool around with forging exotic steels large scale, I'd just rather do it safe, the reason for posting on the forum was more specifically asking if there was a good UK supplier of bolts known not to be plated. I had looked through forum posts but found conflicting discussions about whether stainless was fine or not, that's the problem with forums, sometimes someone chimes in and provides counter evidence or 'I do it anyway' type posts. 

I wouldn't post if I hadn't looked, I can definitely see how this would be super fundamental knowledge. It would be the same as someone asking me about ABS plastics or why some people lick rocks. 

You're also welcome to ignore my posts if they are ones you would rather not answer personally for that reason.  Not that I would want to lose an experienced person's information/opinion on something.

Just now, the iron dwarf said:

you can buy unplated bolts but you need to go to better places than b+q or screwfix

I get plain bolts for the forges

So is SS ok? 

10 minutes ago, Frosty said:

My Soderfors would be laughing at the idea of needing a cut plate to protect Her, she'd sing something like, "Go ahead dummy, hit it HARD! It's your chisel, punch or whatever. Hit it REAL hard, I'm hungry."

I think my anvil is the softest thing in my toolkit by the way it takes a mark  She will do just fine as long as I stop hitting it with pointed and bladed items though