rboughton3rd

I managed to get my forge shell cut down to the final size, it started as a 30 gallon hot water heater. Now i just have to finish ordering the rest of what I need to get it put together...

Rookie, In an attempt to understand the context of your argument I started reading the posts in which you had previously responded and became very confused, first on your sense of time... According to this statement you have been " hammering" for years, and yet if we look back to your previous statements... just 7 months ago you were "preparing to begin hitting metal", not sure of much statement to hold true here, maybe you are standing next to a black hole and your perception of time is effected in some way...who knows. Now lets more past the date at the top of your post and look at the rest of the text contained within, your first few statements are more a matter of opinion than fact so we can skip those and move to the 6th sentence Given that you did not site your source there is no way to prove or disprove this statement so it becomes moot. Looking at the rest of your post you continued without siting any specific sources, but you did use a quote in your last line we now have hint at something other than indirect hints and opinions. Using the search feature on this forum and using the words "Inelastic rebound" and applying it to the threads in which you participated we come up with this thread specifically Frosty's post I am not sure how you would find this post a source of amusement or how it could be described as You claim above Let us assume that with your "degrees in engineering" that you have at least a basic understanding of Physics, so we can take a look at your finding of the term "Inelastic rebound" as some how being "misunderstood" to the point of being funny. "Inelastic" does in fact apply to this( I will site my source in a moment), so we can move past that and look at the second word being "rebound". Here I think is where your issue lies, in the scientific community that word would not be used in that context, but we are on a blacksmithing forum were most people would understand the word "rebound". I believe in this case Frosty used simple word substitution to convey his message in a way that the majority of his audience would understand. If we go back to the scientific community the word that follows "Inelastic" would most likely be "Collisions". Why do I think this, because Elastic and "Inelastic" collisions are exactly what happens when you put hammer to anvil. Here I can site multiple sources the first being a simple breakdown of the Physics involved.http://www.tutorvista.com/content/physics/physics-iii/work-energy-power/elastic-inelastic-collisions.php If you prefer something more than just a simple breakdown you can check this sourcehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inelastic_collision While I don't generally use Wikipedia as a source, in this case it does list its own references on the subject including " Vector equations for engineers: Dynamics (Sixth ed.). McGraw Hill. pp. 794–797." ISBN 978-0070053663 which I think should be enough to let us assume that the information given is fairly accurate. If you are going to start a thread stating that you have issues with something that was said at least site your source, you may be wrong, the person who disagreed with you may be wrong, you both may be wrong and maybe someone else has the the right information or at least knows where to look for it. You will find in many threads that people specifically state that it is their opinion or how they prefer to do something( I will not site sources here because it would take up several pages). The point of this forum is so that we can all learn from each other, someone who has been blacksmithing for 40 years may have completed then same task 10,000 times, does that mean he is always right, no, some 15 year old kid may find a more efficient way to complete the same task the first time he picks up a hammer, we each have our own perspective, our own experience. Please use this forum to continue its original point, to learn and share knowledge. Arguments like the one you tried to start above are pointless. But that's just my 2 cents.

plenty of forklifts but I have not found anyone so far that is willing to part with a broken fork. most of the breaks i have seen have been close to the tip so are easily ground down reused on another forklift. I was thinking of the RR track to start as well as a mild steel striking anvil which would also give me a hardy hole to work with and they don't generally have a large price tag on them the way hardened anvils do. I have brother who is also interested in starting blacksmithing as a hobby and the striking anvil would come in handy given that we could help each other make some of the tools needed to start without killing each other with shrapnel.

what sucks is other than the heel being completely gone it looks to be in good shape, but i can't bring myself to spend $325 on 2/3 of a #120 anvil. I am just starting out and I'm looking at trying to find a piece of RR track to start with unless i can find something at a decent price that i can afford, but all i can find in my area at the moment is things like this or a #125 HB that the guy want $700 for, which i a bit out on my price range at the moment.

i would jump on that if i had the chance. I know the central ny area has a few posted up here that are high end of market or overpriced for what they are... like this gem that they want $325 for...

would a scatter gun for a blacksmith fire cross pein hammers, if so I NEVER want to be on the business end of that one. Godspeed and good luck TP.

centaur refund my order as well, they have no copies. So i had no choice but to print a downloaded version to make the burners I need for now. But I am looking forward to your next one being published, you will have to let us know the release date.

Thanks for the link, but I ordered the book anyway. We gotta keep Mikey's tinkering funded so he can keep teaching us new stuff and I can apparently resell it on amazon and make $130 profit.

well some of that i have, i know i need a tap and die set and the drill press it a bit beyond my price range at the moment, but I might be able to improvise my way around that. Also liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen are way out of my price range so no missiles for me.

centaur forge has them for $20, I think its is a little over priced on amazon at $153, but its they are moving at that price your publisher may want to put it back in print. I said I would have to take a better look at the process, with the limited tools I have at the moment I don't know what I can afford to do. As it is I had to go buy an angle grinder just to get the water heater apart and the sides cleaned off from all the spray foam they use it insulate them with.

I should have the experience and skills but I am lacking in equipment, not access to a proper machine shop at the moment. Once my copy of Mikey's book gets here I will have to take a better look at the build process to see if I can pull it off. And you are right about people and math skills, I have had to take tests to work in machine shops before and I watched an "Engineer" barely pass while myself and a few others got every question right, he has a masters degree that requires 6 years of school beyond high school, I have my GED... A piece of paper means nothing.

With Frosty's insulation recommendations each wall is now at 2"of blanket and ½" of kastolite, so 5" total off length and 5" off the diameter would leave me with 9"x9", which should come out to 572.56cu in. I was using the formula for volume of a normal cylinder, not sure if there is another out there for use with forges. I know there are tried and true methods in almost everything we do, was just not sure if there was one that i was ignorant of in this case. As for confusing gas jets and liquid jets it was my attempt at tinkering, using my basic understanding of fluid dynamics, I know in some cases fluids and gases act the same way based on physics, but that may be me getting into the realm of "engineers" and physicists, I probably need a better understanding of the principals at work here before i start to tinker.

thanks for the tips Frosty, it helps me continue to plan. I am one of those guys that tries to live by the rule of measure twice cut once(it has gotten expensive for me by not doing this). Not to mention that when moving a few years ago a lot of my tools were stolen so I will be buying what I need as I go through this build, but still trying to do it as cheaply as possible. That in mind is why I wanted to use the smallest burners possible, thinking that they would use the least amount of gas, and then trying to harness the most I could out of the heat they produce by creating a heat vortex inside the forge. As for the burner placement in the drawing I said it was a crude 3 minute drawing, but it is basically the same concept that you describing for a square or rectangular forge but taken to the extreme to try and take advantage of every BTU that I could and prevent any cold spots. Although now I seem to be having a problem with my math, Mikey has the calculations coming out at 350cu in with 2" of insulation on each wall, now with 2½" on each wall I am coming up with 572.56 cu in. I am trying to figure out if I calculated it using the wrong formula( V= π r² h), or If I missed a step in reading the building process. Also wondering if it would make more sense to leave the bottom of the tank intact and use the existing exhaust hole(2 3/4") for exhaust and material pass thru, I don't foresee a need for a 9" wide rear outlet for any of the projects I have planned, and keeping it intact would increase the insulation on the inside to keep everything more efficient. I am adding a pic below, it may not be clearly visible but the bottom of this tank is concave not convex like most pressure tanks, not sure if that will help or hurt the design. Thanks in Advance. P.S. Thanks Frosty for the insight into Alaskan supply chains, my wife and I plan on buying a piece of land in central Alaska within the next few years and building our own place, its one of the reasons I am getting into blacksmithing, much cheaper and easier to make most of the things I will need rather than spending time and money running back and forth to the closest store to get supplies and tools.

Mikey thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated. With you recommending 2 1/2" in burners i started rereading some of your posts on that size and remembered that you have run into an issue with welding tips being not quite the right size to work perfectly for them. I remembered that years ago when i worked in a machine shop we made fuel nozzles for some helicopter parts, one of those was a pain in the ass to make which is why it stuck with me. It involved taking a 440f stainless ball bearing and drilling a .005" hole thru it, not an easy task, if the bits did not break they tended to have a lot of run out(drifting). But i think it might solve the problem here if we change materials and use a larger bit which is what is needed anyway. If we use a standard .177 copper BB, file one side flat and drill a .028 hole using a #70 bit, then take that and put it into a piece of tube that has a slight flare in to hold it( maybe braze in place). would that work better than a slightly oversized tip? its just a thought i figured i would bounce off of you before I spend too much time trying to make it work.

I am new to blacksmithing and am about to start building my first forge, I figure I would start here after several YouTube videos pointed me to IForgeIron. The area I live in does not take too kindly to a lot of smoke, so gas forge it is. Thankfully I saved the hot water heater i replaced a few months ago so it gives me a tank to start with that i can cut down to pretty much any size i want. I wanted to build a medium sized forge to start so I don't have to try and build another one in a few months because its too small for the work i want to do. The tank is currently 14" in dia. and i was hoping to have it also be 14" in length. After an inch of Kast-o-lite and an inch of kaowool, it would leave me with a little over 1000cu in of volume to heat. My question is would it be possible to use 3 of Mikey's mini burners(3/8) angled to follow the contours of the inside to the forge along its length, one at a low angle one mid and one high, and still be able to hit welding temp. I was thinking it might be more efficient in gas usage compared to 2 or 3 larger burners used in a standard way. I was thinking the placement might add a turbine effect inside the forge which should give it even heat through out and enough force to expel any bad gases from being trapped within. I added a 3 minutes crude drawing just so you might be able to picture what i had in mind. Any advice would be most welcome, Thanks.