G-ManBart

On 9/16/2018 at 3:32 PM, Stash said:

I dunno- looks to be a cast iron ASO. Not like the Acme, made by Trenton they used to sell.

Steve

There was no company named Trenton that made anvils.  Columbus Forge and Iron made anvils marked with "Trenton" as their house brand.  They also made them that were marked ACME, AJAX, and others.  Hay-Budden also made anvils marked ACME.

GB sent me a note...the serial number listed was different than the picture.  AIA says 1922-23 for the actual serial number in case anybody was wondering.

1 hour ago, GrumpyBiker said:

Anyone have a copy of AIA and be able to tell me the date of this anvil ?

serial number 33557

AIA says 1918.

I have a small 114# early Hay-Budden with a base that looks identical to yours.  Mine has a 4-digit serial number which dates to 1913 (2nd year or production) and has plenty of the factory markings on the side to positively identify it.  I've had one other early H-B with a similar base, but can't recall if I have any pictures of it or not.  Sorry the pics aren't great...just took them before I headed to the house to pull out AIA and check the serial number.

On 8/6/2018 at 9:31 PM, bajajoaquin said:

There was a reference to a 1000-lb anvil in another thread, and I followed up on it, finding the Blacksmith’s Paradise shop. Those anvils are pricey, but less expensive than what I can find in my area. I’ve also been having issues with the beat up edges of my pre-1850 Hill. 

So.... anyone buy from them? Any opinions on working with them?

(no, I’m not in the market for that 1000-lb monster, but I wish I were!)

Emerald is a bit difficult to work with (I bought two anvils from him).  We had a long back and forth over several months and I told him I wanted to buy three vises to fill a pallet (1,000lbs).  All along, I was up front and said it might take me a few months to decide on anvils, and have the money at the same time, and he said he was fine with holding onto them until they could ship at the same time.  I bought one anvil, then a month or so later bought another.  I was trying to decide on a third, but never got to that.  

Oh, he won't take anything but a wire transfer if you buy outside of eBay, so add $25 or so to the cost. 

Without any notification I got a call from a guy named Henry in Texas saying that he had my anvils and wanted to know how I wanted to deal with shipping them.  Needless to say, I was pretty annoyed.  Emerald never checked with me before shipping because he prefers to send a container to Texas with everyone's anvils, give that guy a free anvil (or one very heavily discounted) and let him deal with re-shipping them to all of the other buyers.

In the end I wound up paying Emerald for shipping to Texas, then setting up my own shipping from Texas to Michigan.

To make things even more interesting, a local friend of mine had also bought an anvil from Emerald at the same time, and it turns out he didn't pay anything for the shipping between Germany and Texas.  He and I combined our three anvils and got them shipped from Texas to Michigan fairly reasonably, but it was still not what I ever intended since Emerald lists he can ship to most any major U.S. city and all of the Detroit freight places are within about 20 minutes of my house. 

Henry was very helpful, combined the two shipments into one, and got them dropped off at the freight terminal for me.  He told me that a number or people he called had the exact same response and had no idea their anvils were going to get shipped to Texas.

I will say that both of the anvils I bought, and the one my friend bought, were exactly as the pictures described.

All of this comes down to communication.  If Emerald had been up front and said "I ship X times a year, and send them all to Texas, and then you'll coordinate with Henry" or something like that, I would have been okay with it, but having it dumped on me like this was unprofessional, especially since he knew I was looking to buy three anvils, not just two.

On 8/7/2018 at 11:01 AM, Black Frog said:

On top of the purchase price, shipping, import duties, and brokerage fees are not cheap.....

There are no import taxes on anvils, or other blacksmithing items.

5 minutes ago, Black Frog said:

Correct, that's an old style stamp. Sometimes you see numbers like that sporadically, could very well be a serial number. But they were not serialized like American manufacturers through their entire production history.

That makes sense...could be something else entirely as well.  Is there any documentation or idea when they changed to the newer stamp style?  I have it mounted on a nice fabricated steel stand and my search for the perfect smaller anvil is probably over.

4 minutes ago, Black Frog said:

While Soderfors didn't have serial numbers,  a month stamp would at least give them an indication of production timeframes after the fact if there ever was a problem with a certain batch of steel or raw iron ore.

My Soderfors has a number that could well be a serial number....can't see how it could possibly be a date.  Everyone who sees this beauty tries to buy it, but she's mine, mine, mine all mine.

On 12/12/2017 at 10:22 AM, Billytr11 said:

Yes I can get you pics of those. Can you tell me how many of these anvils were made

Technically, your anvil isn't a "Trenton".  Columbus Forge and Iron made anvils with many names on them, with Trenton being the name they sold as their own brand.  When they made them for others they had a variety of names stamped on the side.

Assuming Anvils in America is correct, CFI only made around 300 anvils for Shapleigh Hardware Co....so it's definitely unusual and a great find!

Unfortunately, some folks always seem to semi-scold someone for asking if their newly found anvil is rare, or how old it is, or how many were made.  You just have to ignore that.

On 8/15/2017 at 1:08 AM, Charles R. Stevens said:

I think I need to apologies to you. Sorry we got off on the wrong foot, I was mulling over a sore spot and I used you to get on my soap box.

No need...I've got thick skin 

Fair enough.  I opened the first picture up to it's full size, and it looked like the one chip at the front, and one near the back had sharp edges on the top side, but it could just be the lighting since metal isn't easy to get good pictures of.  Obviously, running a finger over them would be worth lots of pictures 

I'm not asking to start an argument...just an honest question.  You wouldn't lightly dress the sharp edges on some of those chips so they don't get worse?

I recall there were changes over time in the number of handling holes, with some variation based upon weight, as well as the shape of the depression in the base.  Pictures of the base along with pictures of any handling holes might help as well.

You sure picked a good one to find first!

It depends on the brand/model and how the spindle is retained.  The majority of vises use a set collar of some kind on the inside of the dynamic jaw to retain the spindle.  You take the dynamic jaw out, flip it over, and there will be an obvious set collar.  Wear to either the back of the spindle, or the set collar, creates a gap you have to take up by turning the handle.  With the dynamic jaw out of the body you'll be able to push/pull on the spindle and see the slop. 

You can usually add a thrust washer in front of the set collar to tighten things up, or rotate the position of the set collar, and drill a new hole in the spindle for the set screw.  I generally just add a thrust washer, but yesterday moved the hole for the set collar on an old Reed because the hole for the set screw was worn oblong. 

It can also be a loose nut in the body of the vise.  Most are held in place with a pin and if the pin isn't a tight fit to the nut, when you turn the handle, the nut moves back and forth.  Normally you can just bend the pin forward until it's making contact with the nut and you're set.  I usually heat the pins and pre-bend them close to what they need to be rather than install them in the vise and hammer on them....all of the load is being taking by the casting of the base, and that's a bad idea.

If the vise is a Reed with a split ring in front and adjustable nut stop in the rear it's a different issue...usually just an adjustment.

On 8/12/2017 at 10:56 PM, SandHuf said:

Believe it or not I am actually a dishwasher haha. So money is tight, especially if I want to get a post vise and replace my cast iron anvil with a tool steel one.

I just ordered a Diamondback 2-burner blacksmith model over the weekend after reading lots of threads like this, and a number of reviews, and YouTube videos.  I'm really looking forward to it.

I might be able to help with the post vise and anvil...I seem to have a knack for finding them.  I'll send you a PM.

The range is pretty broad depending upon brand, model and condition.  For example, the 6" Reed swivel jaw I'm hoping to get a shot at eventually would be an easy $500 in many places and higher in some where vises are scarce.  If it were an 8" Reed swivel jaw that number easily doubles.  I have a buddy who has a 7" Yost swivel jaw he would sell for $750, and it could really do with having a new set of jaws custom made for it.

Up through 6" models it's pretty easy to price the, but any bigger they're fairly rare and the folks buying them don't necessarily like to share what they pay for them.  I nearly stole that 8" American Scale for $350, and AS is on the lower end of quality and desirability.

1 hour ago, JT said:

the one I'm looking at has a swivel rear jaw .. did chipping vises have these swivel jaws ?? 

It may be an issue of semantics, but I don't think a true chipping vise would ever have a rear swivel jaw, for one reason; they are much, much weaker than a standard vise.

A heavy chipping vise was used for rather severe duty, and it wouldn't make much sense to use a far weaker design if there was any way around it.

For many/most people, a rear swivel jaw is nothing but a liability.  That's why so many of them are found with the pin hammered in almost permanently, or welded in, or the whole assembly was drilled and tapped with a large bolt to secure the swivel from moving at all or the swivel jaw welded in place...the list goes on.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of swivel jaws, and have a couple around most of the time, but I don't see much utility for a 200+lb swivel jaw other than for very specialized applications.  Heck, I'm trying to get a guy to part with a 6" Reed swivel jaw, but really just for the cool factor!

1 hour ago, JT said:

yes it does.. I see no makers marks on this vise but is so massive in person..

I've seen a number of 7" and 8" swivel jaws that didn't have a name on them.  Speculation is that a railroad, or similar company, would place an order and the companies would make them without logos....it wasn't really a standard stocking item, so they would have essentially done a special order and not bothered with details like lettering in the molds.  I've seen a 7" swivel jaw that had some letters, and nobody is sure who made it....it's like a combination of three different brands, Yost, Prentiss and Reed.  

Saw that one as well.  It's like the estate sale people don't even look at some of the pictures they post!

240lb, 8" jaw American Scale I picked up last year.  Some 8" models were 300lbs+.

They actually look smaller in pictures than in person 

2 hours ago, Glenn said:

Photos are good with even cross lighting, overall photos, then photos of the details. The photos are well framed with a background that is not distracting or in competition with the subject.

The details are legible as they are. I would like to see a second photo of each detail with a bit of flour, chalk, or baby powder in the depressions, and a strong low angle light from the side to make them pop out. 

Only thing you missed is the listing the marked weight and the scaled weight in the text. 

Nice anvil and a nice find.

Thanks Glenn...it was just too nice to pass up.  I'll try pictures with chalk and side lighting to better highlight the details.  It's marked as 130lbs and weighed just a touch over 125lbs on my bathroom scale.  I don't know which is correct, but I've had pretty good luck using that scale to weigh packages for UPS and Fedex, so I'm going with the 125lb reading.  I should add that it's 11 1/2" tall and 24" long overall.  I'll try to remember to measure the face when I try the chalk pictures.

I'm just tickled to have found it and can't wait to try it out!

Experts feel free to chime in.  Would it be smart to dress up the chip(s) near the table in the last picture so they don't get any worse?

Slight correction on the  sellers's family history.  It was actually his great-grandfather's anvil.  His name was Frank Peters and he was born in German in 1871, and later came to the U.S.  It was his grandfather who was born in 1913, the same year this anvil was purchased.  He even sent me a family photo that was taken in Beal City, Michigan in 1924 or 1925 when his grandfather was just a boy...very cool stuff.

It's not like I really needed another anvil, but I saw this one, and it was too good of a deal to pass up.  At the very least I thought some pictures might help someone down the road identify a similar anvil.  

The seller said it was his grandfather's anvil that the family believes he bought new when he went to work for the county doing blacksmithing and farrier work.  According to AIA, it should be around a 1913 production, and the seller said that made sense because that was very shortly after his grandfather came to this country, and was the year one of his mother's siblings was born (an aunt or uncle...can't recall).  Unfortunately, the seller doesn't have anyone to hand it down to, doesn't use it, and was short of cash.  He also said he wanted to see it put to use again.  He was given some bad advice on pricing, so I paid him more than what he was asking for it...only seemed fair.

He was worried the chip out of the face near the table hurt the value but it didn't make me even think for a second.  The right shoulder has some minor chips that should dress nicely and the left shoulder is nearly perfect.  I guess that will make it more like what a lefty would like with the larger radius on the right side, but it doesn't bother me since it'll have a nice variety of radii to work with.

I think the markings follow along pretty nicely with what AIA posts....the heat treat marks on the right side, the obvious weld at the waist where the solid steel top starts, inspector's number under the horn near the waist.  It also has a single "2" under the horn, near the tip, which Mr. Postman mentions but has no explanation for.

I've learned it's not easy to take pictures of anvils with glare and angles, but these aren't too bad.  Sorry for the order of the pictures...I used my phone and redid a couple of them and the site uploads them chronologically....hence the shuffled order.

Some more pics:

It's unfortunate that it was misrepresented, but it's still a reasonable price for a 5" Parker.  I've had two just like it, and they weighed 105lbs, so still a very solid piece.  Yours should clean up nicely.

I've only owned two Hay Buddens, and am not an expert on them, but have a thought or two.  Can you post pictures?   A good picture of the serial number (might have to play around with a flashlight and angles) and both sides?  I ask about the sides because HB changed their design around 1908 and the later anvils usually have a clear weld line where the solid steel top half starts and some sort of heat treat numbers on the side opposite the logo.  That would at least narrow things down a bit if it eliminates everything before or after the change.

Here's a pic of a Lakeside stamped Hay Budden (1913 is what the book says) with the weld line visible, and the numbers for the steel heat treat visible.

For whatever reason, I seem to be able to find bench vises and anvils without much trouble, but finding a larger post vise has been a challenge.  I just got home with this 6" Iron City...looks to be pretty good, and weighed right at 100lbs.  Stop two was to pick up the 130lb Lakeside Hay Budden that I'm really tickled with....looks like 1913 production, one nearly perfect edge and another with a couple of chips that should dress up nicely. 

You did well on that one...hard to find a decent 6" vise for anywhere near that price!

On 8/4/2017 at 10:30 PM, Nhvalentine said:

I live in La Plata, MD.  about an hour south of DC.  I got the anvil however in small town in central VA.  I drove 3 hours to get it. Gordonsville, VA to be exact.

I lived in Waldorf until 2006 and used to hit golf balls at the range in La Plata on 301 :-)  Welcome, and nice find on the anvil.  Any idea what it weighs?