Senpai

I concur - the hours spent eating grinding dust are many and the return on investment not so good. I too like the more simple smithing - heating up metal and beating on it til it looks pretty and is functional - very satisfying

It's a brand new Ernst Refflinghaus 275 pounder - yeah it did - unable to find an old one, I researched and researched until I came up with this one - It's an amazingly well crafted tool - I never regretted ever buying a good tool - this one as well My blower is hand crank - it has taught me a lot about things such as heat and fuel conservation - lot of work but a good buy nonetheless I too have the usual hand tools and a pedestal grinder as well - I don't use them as much except when I have a big welding job.

LOL! Indeed there is! I think Biggundoctor is probably right about it all - I just need to get over it... I did like the idea of a swage table - I think that has merit - it definitely needs to be able to take hits from the big hammer. You know - cutting a square hole into some 3/8" plate might also be an idea - put that over your hardy hole and drive the tool onto the plate stock - that'd insulate and protect from chipping or tempering the edges of the hardy hole. - thoughts?

Exactly! - A friend of mine calls it a business incubator - We'll provide capital, space, services and mentoring (senpai's) and they can get started up with less overhead as well as provide a hybrid apprenticeship program for kids out of high school I've added a not for profit branch to the business model that provides capital and services for veterans as well as coordinating folks with special needs with jobs and tasks to do depending upon their abilities. I'll keep my shop around and make it part of the process as I think in it's infancy I'm going to need to beat on something every once in a while

It may be - sure looks like some sort of alloy to me - soft and crumbly like iron but not that ductile

4" does sound right - Can't think of anything I do that would be bigger than that anyway. I guess I should post what I end up doing with that beast - (what was I thinking anyway) Been tolerating it for a bit now - At times I'll sink as low as bending my stock so it sits down on the fire. Been loath to cut through an inch of steel casting (or drill through it for that matter) Hoping the steel removal fairy will visit my forge one night and just make it go away.

Whoa! College Station! no kidding? My kid is up there soaking up all my money with tuition and whatever it is that kids do today. This just made my day. Definitely need to get up there and hang out. I'm not real big - but I'm having a great time I included a photo of my new (and most prized) anvil plus a really, really overdone dog food dish destined for someone's greyhound. My smithy is non-electric all hand crank and hand hammer - Keeps an old guy fit and with the coal fumes and whatnot at the peak of health! I do have a couple of welders, grinders and all that stuff - I also do fab work for folks who like those big ol' farm bumpers on their trucks

Good morning Frosty - Thank you for the welcome. It is really nice to have such a good like minded group to talk with. About the business - it's one of those life goals things. Have to admit it's not the usual content that folks go on about but it's pretty exciting to me - The idea was to create a low cost, easy to manage method for young folks to start and manage their craft. At least in my area, anyone that doesn't go to college goes to McDonalds - and then some of the folks that go to college still go to McDonalds. Enough of that - With respect to burning metal and beating on it with a hammer, I'm self taught so I pick one thing at a time and incorporate that into what I do - I try to improve on it as I use it. This week's efforts are focused on scrollwork and the various methods of attaching it to other stuff. Pete

Thanks biggundoctor. That is true. In the case of the hardie hole it may be a good thing to replace hardness with toughness. I'm truly just being a bit picky about something that will be beat on mercilessly its entire life. the face is 59 Rockwell or better. I have yet to put a ding in it. The color change is not unlike finding a ding in the door of your new car.

Thank you Glenn - this is much appreciated. I am convinced to do this with the addition of a support for the stock attached to the handle - see note above on laziness and holding stock while heating... Thomas Powers had a good idea that might just work with this - Could cut a larger area and then use some sheetmetal with a mouse hole for small stuff and for bigger you could just pull the insert out. cutting wheel on a 4 inch angle grinder just might do the job in this case - and perhaps its time to buy a sawzall, no?

Greetings all and thank you for allowing me to join this forum. I've already experienced a wealth of talent and ideas from folks willing to share their knowledge. This is an occupation that has no bounds and nobody has all the answers and strength in numbers is the word. Back in the dark ages I started out as a floor sweeper in a machine shop in Silicon Valley - worked my way up to journeyman and then toolmaker. Was lucky enough to have made parts for the lunar landers as well as the space shuttles for NASA (pretty cool) - in a fit of patriotism (Reagan years) and perhaps a loss of sensibilities I joined the Navy and saw the world 400 feet below the surface of the water and from a periscope. After a stint in Naval nuclear power I wandered away from my craft and ventured into more modern fields such as IT. As I have aged I realize that I have like the prodigal son, reached a point where I am able more and more to enjoy my earlier talents in fabrication, machining and yes, smithing - I became entranced with blacksmithing some years earlier and have focused on it for some years; modeling my shop after the one my great grandfather used as a pioneer in the old west. Very fulfilling even on a bad day. I'm really not anything exceptional at all but have a passion that I enjoy sharing and doing. Seeing more and more that the 'crafts' are losing talent by attrition I have decided to begin an organization that will encourage all those folks not unlike myself who have no aptitude for college and such to start a passion/career in the crafts. There are no real apprenticeships anymore but a hybrid model exists that can be facilitated by the use of the Renaissance method of using the 'Bodega' - it has become my business model and little by little I am hoping if nothing else to leave a few people with something that they can rely on for the rest of their lives. I'm working towards my goal and looking for a few good Senpai's to mentor young people and helping folks start businesses. - hopefully I didn't lull you to sleep - enjoy your passion - Senpai.

Reminiscent of swabbies heaving to on the anchor windlass - Well done. After my son bent his 4' wrench I offered to inlay some 'stays' so he could get more torque without bending - Instead we opted to make it into a humongous slugging wrench similar to what the mechanics used at the nuke plant - they would use it to knock the nuts free on the reactor cavity drain. (btw really tough task when you are dressed up in anti-c clothes, respirator and sealed in a plastic suit. welded 5/8" by 2' stays to either side and a slugging pad on the end of the wrench - it's a beast. You are probably correct - it'd take a bit to really do any sort of damage to the anvil - the 'blueing' was of some concern but logic says it'd take a great deal of heat to do any tempering at all to the heat treat on that anvil - I'm sure it's fine - I've yet to see any marks at all on the face of that anvil from an errant blow. (yes I miss from time to time) It's a great deal harder than my hardest hammer. Dang thing'll cause a hammer to bounce right back at you. But Still, it' so pretty... (snort) There's always 'another way' - have been getting some good ideas and solutions so far.

LOL - Yeah - wishing we had more folks in my area that were of like mind - (or lack of mind) - Bought my son the diesel mechanic a 4 foot stillson wrench for ripping stuck ball joints off the front end of diesel trucks - he bent it - that's ok 'cause he used his 20 lb sledge to uh, 'fix' it. I envisioned someone standing on top of a vice table using said 4 ' crescent hammer with an additional 4' cheater trying to make a RR spike all twisty - 1.5 stock hot is a formidable challenge would've liked to have seen it done.

yeah, I like the lip around the edge - a notch really is the right thing to do - Could fabricate a support as well to support the cold, non-business end of the stock while the other end is heating. 'cause I'm lazy like that. Hmmm. A side hole such as for a tuyere but to hold stock has merit but it might limit the size of the rod or bar stock you could use. V notch or square... that's an interesting choice.

Brilliant - a anvil high table to support a post vice and take the abuse hits from tool making.... This would work good in my small shop. This is worth the effort of haunting some scrap dealers and old farms in the area. Ok - twisting a RR spike cold... wow! must've needed a good sized tubular torque extender...

Halellujiah! I had cut the cylinder sleeve such that there would be a 1" lip around to hold in chunks of coal that tried to escape the forge. Well, found that this presents the problem which is now the topic of this discussion - (admittedly it has hijacked the initial discussion presenting what looks like a really nice drum forge made by Forrest Betts. Adding another inch of sleeve to the bottom should probably be ok - but will make the floor a bit messier as I step on errant chunks of coal and clinkers. - you are right - a hacksaw will probably do well and a sawsall an even better option. Was thinking it could be done in a 'V' shape - that'd maybe hold onto round stock a bit. (maybe)

I like the idea of the 'hardy table' and even a broached out hole on a softer piece of steel would work fine for forming the tools. thinking perhaps even a couple of good sized chunks of plate steel welded together might do the trick - I've got plenty of that Most of the tools I made haven't - I'm hyper sensitive and kinda whiny about all this because the anvil is so new (and expensive) - when I lifted the tool I was making out of the hole and saw blue discoloration on the anvil I kinda freaked. I'm thinking I just left the tool in there just a little too long. It's a 1 inch square hole - big so you have to give a good sized piece of steel some good heat to get it to fit. A Refflinghaus anvil has 1" of hardened steel as it's face - logic says that maybe the very surface edge of the hole was affected - it's not like the effect was deep.

Well said - I can tell you I am one of those that isn't blessed with abundant electrical power. (sigh) Opportunity is what it is - My son came over with this massive brake drum and I said "Wow, that'd make a great forge" - well it made a great forge but it took some time and head scratching to get it to where it was working right. Better that I should have hauled that 150 year old forge and anvil home (My great grandfather hauled it across the US in a covered wagon to California and set up shop in a small town named Santa Paula) - had no clue about its value. the ideas here are refreshing and getting the gears turning. I'm all about improving stuff -

LOL - It's the right thing to do - I'm just being wimpy. shuddering about cutting through two inch wall thickness of the casting on either side - that's a big 'ol drum - not your garden variety auto drum - it used to be a rear drive axle brake drum off an old Pete. Sucker weighs about 150 pounds as is. Hence I thought, well, let's just raise the fire pot up a little higher - Putting an inch more of that cylinder sleeve underneath it just might be an easier go. When my grandfather died I inherited my grandfathers and great grandfather's tools - My uncle talked me out of taking my great grandfather's anvil and back then what looked like a really funny looking sink sitting there against the wall of the garage. I kick myself to this day that I didn't take my great grandfathers forge and anvil. In this case, might have saved me a bit of trouble no?

Lordy! sounds like a lot of finishing work -

Not a bad idea - You can beat on it all day and who cares?

One of the age old methods for making hardie tools is to forge the tool to the basic shape and size of the hardie hole and then heat the tool, place it in the hardy hole and hammer it into the hole so that it fits the shape of the hole and has a flange around it - Noting on my new anvlil that this method tends to draw the heat to the anvil as would be expected but is also affecting the heat treating around the hole - Not wanting to hurt the temper of my anvil face I'm looking at alternate methods of fitting the tools - any other ways folks are doing this? I'd sure like to keep this anvil pristine - not sure it's affecting the face but it on one occasion has actually caused a color change around the edges of the hardy hole. Maybe I'm just being wimpy about my new anvil but it sure is nice having really good tools for a change. Could be that I just left the tool in the hole too long or had the heat too high - dunno.

that's a good idea. I have a heavy fire poker which I lay over the top of the stock (as long as the stock isn't too heavy - it keeps it in place while I'm heating it. Not to 'techie' but it works - I don't do a lot of big stuff but do have a problem when drawing out things becoming unbalanced

Yes - over did it on the sizing but it rolls around well enough - That's a good idea. I've been using the handrails I made to support the longer pieces of materials. Often times with a vice grip clamped to the rail - it has kept things but I like the mouse hole idea

Nope - you are correct - I started this not having a clue but have been improving it as I go been hesitant about cutting through 2" of casting - Have been raising the coals to meet the steel bar presently - Most probably will raise the brake rotor another inch as a solution - want a little bit of lip there to keep everything contained - it's been a trial and error thing - otherwise has really worked well.