Woody

fill a bucket or other suitable container with water, add baking soda to it to make it more conductive, attach the negative cable from a battery charger to the tongs, and put them in the water. Attach the positive cable to a piece of metal and put it in the water on the opposite side of the tongs. turn on the battery charger. In a while the rust will be gone from the tongs and there will be no damage to the parent metal. If you do a search somewhere on this forum there is a more complete expanation of the process along with the exact amout of soda to add per gallon of water.

35 years ago when I first started forging blades, I decided to make a knife out of an old file. This was long before anyone ever mentioned such technical terms as annealing to me. I heated it to a bright orange or so and hit it with my hammer. The thing shattered and red hot shrapnel went everywhere. This was also long before I had any sort of protective clothing like a leather apron. I nearly set fire to the family tree. That was my first, last and only experience with files as blade material. Not at times I mentor the kids in the Blacksmith Club at the School of Mines. Someone gave them a bunch of old files and they beat them at anywhere from dull red to almost bubbly yellow with no ill effects that I have seen. Me, I am still a little nervous around them though.

jmcustomknives: The grain shrinkage is states in the document by Dr. Verhoeven and documented with a table that shows grain size before and after a triple quench. 3 steels were listed 1045, 1086 and 5150. Ultrafine grain size was obtained in all 3 steels. I have the complete doucment in pfd format. Email me if you want a copy and I can send it to you.

The object of triple quenching is to shrink the grain size drastically. Since the smaller grain size enhances the toughness of the steel, it is desirable in knifemaking to have a small grain size in the blade. The process is explained on pages 68 & 69 "Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel" by John D. Verhoeven Emeritus Professor Iowa State University. Somewhere on this site there is a link to the online version of that document. He also states that to shrink the grain size the metal is heated into the austenite region holding the maximum temperature as low as possible and the time as short as possible and then rapidly cooling back to room temperature as fast as possible without forming bainite, assuming it is not desired. Since smaller initial grain size promotes smaller final grain size, repeating this cycles several times will enhance fine grain size. Some people confuse this process with normalizing but there is a significant difference between this process and normalizing and that is the cooling time. In normalizing the metal is heated, soaked at temperature for a given time and then allowed to cool in still air. This process calls for "cooling as fast as possible without forming bainite assuming it is not desired." The temperature range for transformation to bainite (250-550°C) (482F - 1022F) is between those for pearlite and martensite. When formed during continuous cooling, the cooling rate to form bainite is more rapid than that required to form pearlite, but less rapid than is required to form martensite (in steels of the same composition). Most alloying elements will lower the temperature required for the maximum rate of formation of bainite, though carbon is the most effective in doing so. Cooling as fast as possible leaves some room for individual interpretation since Dr. Verhoeven did not explain this in his thesis. In my mind to achieve this one would have to quench the steel. The grain structure that results from normalizing is pearlite. Since bainite forms in a temperature range between peralite and martensite, to cool rapidly without forming bainite would produce martensite, the same structure that one gets from quenching. Now to the question of do you or don't you triple quench? That is up to the individual, there is the advantage of shirnking the grain size. There are distinct disadvantages to triple quenching, one is the possibility of cracking the blade. Also, I am told that one can shrink the grain so much that the steel won't harden although I haven't experienced that nor have I cracked a blade in the quenching process and I triple quench all my blades. Having said that I probably angered the metal gods and from now on all my blades will have the tensil strength of a tootsy roll with multiple cracks.

Thought I would bring this back to the top to see if there are any more ideas before I sent it to Dr West

Beth your work is teriffic! I really like your designs. How in the heck did you manage to forge a dog :D

Some bearing races are case hardened mild steel, that may be why it didn't crack with the water quench. Check it with a file if it cuts easily it's mild steel. What temperature did you temper at?

My opinion is explained here http://hansoncustomk...onstration.html And my Grandfather really was a blacksmith, if you can find a book called "Iron Spirits" about blacksmiths who made cemetery crosses in North Dakota, his work is in there, his name was Conrad Segmiller.

take two pieces of wood put a small gruve down the center of each with a router, then glue them together and shape it into a handle.

A while back I was told by a consumate bladesmith that the only difference between a $50 knife and a $500 knife was finish, and fittings. I prefer a highly finished knife. Think of it as marketability, which would you pay more for a shiny Corvette or a Chevy that looked like it had been used in a demo derby?

So what do I do with the knowledge I have acquired? I wasn't born with it, some of it I got from asking questions of others, some of it I got from trial and error, some of it I got from reading what others have reduces to writing. But, if I don't pass it on, it dies with me. In my case, not much of a loss but with others, it would be. I have no way of knowing the sincerity of anyone who asks a question on this forum but I have the option of either responding to a question or not. What have I lost if the answer is not used, nothing. What have I lost if i do not respond, an opportunity to pass on knowledge. If the person who posed the question does not use the answer, there are others who read it and may benefit from it. No sense getting your shorts in a wad if you don't happen to like the question or the way it's posed. If the question causes you grief, simply ignore it.

I am copying and pasting all of these into a Word document that I will send to Dr. West keep the ideas coming. Woody

Nelda was released from the hospital yesterday and is home recuperating, thank you all for your prayers. Woody & Jackie

Tim We have your mom and all of your family in our prayers, God bless and keep all or you. Woody & Jackie

It appears that no one has mentioned heat treating to you. First, heat the blade to the point that it goes non magnetic, check with a magnet to be sure you have reached that temperature, it is a dull red usually. Hold the blade at that temperature for a few minutes and then let it cool slowly in sitll air. This is called normalizing, it will relieve the stress induced into the blade by the forging process and refine the grain of the steel. Once the blade is cool, do the filing and cosmetic work mentioned above. Once you have that done, heat the blade again to the non magnetic temperature and quench in oil. Cooking oil can be used, make sure you have enough to properly cool the blade, a gallon should do it. After the blade is quenched clean it up to remove the oil and then temper it in the oven at 375 degrees F for a couple hours. That should give you a knife that will hold a decent edge.

Dr. West from the Metallurgy Department at the South Dakota School of Mines and Technology is doing a program at the ABANA Conference here in Rapid City this summer called "Smith Busting, The Science of Blacksmithing" he is looking for blacksmithing myths to bust like edge packing. I have been asked to help round up some blacksmith myths for him to clarify. If you have a particular myth you would like to submit, please send me a message with it. Thanks Woody

Jerry our prayers are with you and your grandson may God bless and keep you all. Woody & Jackie

Here ya go, hope this sets you on the right path :D http://hansoncustomknives.com/swordkit1.html http://hansoncustomknives.com/swordkit2.html http://hansoncustomknives.com/magicsword.html http://hansoncustomknives.com/Sword.html

Nelda is doing better, waiting for a step down room to get out of ICU. Thanks for your prayers. My daughter just sent me pictures of the car, it is a wonder they survived.

Your prayers please for my Son in Law's mom, Nelda Winn, she was in a bad car accident today and was taken to the hospital in Amarillo, TX for observation with head injuries. Thanks Woody & Jackie

I have made recipe card/recipe book holders from horse shoes.

Beautiful work. I love the contrast in materials. If I had the money I would buy a house with a grand staircase just so I could get you to do the railing. :D

I would use a cutoff wheel on my die grinder.

it is an old carbon tetrachloride fire extinguisher. Exposure to Carbon tetrachloride caused kidney damage amoug other things. Exposing Carbon Tetrachloride or any other chloronated solvent to heat causes it to turn into phosgene gas. That is one of the poison gases used in World War I. Ya'll need to dispense with that scratch and sniff chemical identification because it is definately hazardous to your health.