IanShirm

I'm reading up on burners, in the pages section.. so hopefully i can answer my question..

Thank you :) You answered a lot of my questions. The propane grill i have is large, and has a large oval burner at the bottom, with an air hole circle on each side of the grill walls. with the clay mix, (was thinking just about the whole inside) would the stock burner still be insufficient to reach temps, just hot enough to make the metal plyable if it was well insulated? Not sure why the stock burner wouldn't work.. (not melting metal, just heating) Or is it that when the grill is insulated and hotter than cooking burgers the burner wont hold up? Gonna wait until i take the class (its a 2 person class, so it will be custom tailored to my needs, and the other persons with hands on learning) before i attempt to melt metal, and might wait on building the foundry as well. But id like to start heating/reshaping-working metals with the grill a lot sooner (since not liquid metal and not as hot, or complex thought it would be safer) I have a piece of thick/wide steel i could use as a temporary anvil, strap it to 3 large logs maybie, (since its like 5 feet long, about 7 inches wide and around 2 inches thick) I have a heavy hammer maybie 3x the weight/size of a regular hammer, and my dads got a face shield i can have... if i got a lawnmower blade off my broken mower, could i get it hot enough to be plyable, and shape it on the makeshift anvil? or cut it in half at the middle to make 2 knives? -thanks again, -Ian

I found a 'Blacksmithing Intensive Worshop' in my area, just waiting for them to get back to me.. Blacksmithing Intensive Workshop Dates: Monday, November 18, 2013 Tuesday, November 19, 2013 Wednesday, November 20, 2013 Thursday, November 21, 2013 Times: 9:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m. This class allows two students to completely immerse themselves in learning traditional core Blacksmithing skills. It is responsive to what the students need to learn, and will cover the core skills of our intermediate classes, tool making, and also introduce forge welding. The four day format allows skills to be learned, practiced, and perfected by repetition.

2 setups.. Im thinking melting/casting metal for a knife in the foundry might be harder/more dangerous than, buying a piece of steel, heating it in the forge, and hammering it on an anvil. i dont need to have the grill up to melting temps, cause i'll have the foundry. i should probably start with the grill forge, and play around with that before attempting to melt/cast metals. (in a trash can foundry) What would u suggest for the Grill Forge, (since i should probably make my trash can foundry after a local blacksmithing workshop) if i wanted to use propaine, is there a special burner i can buy to replace the factory burner? and should the shell be coated in insulation, to keep the heat in? so i could use coal for the foundry and propaine for the forge. Or as u suggested, should i just use coal for both?

I live near cooperstown/oneonta NY.. there is a farmers museum that offers a blacksmithing workshop. i have funding, just have to sign up and go. The propaine grill is pretty big, to use as a Forge... i was thinking clay/sand, or firebrick powder/clay, or sand/firebrick powder/clay 1:1:2 more clay to hold the sand and powder. line it with that. when i cook a burger, a lot of heat gets out, if i coat the inside with homemade refactory, im hoping to keep more heat in and have the propaine work more affectivly.

Thanks for the words of wisdom nobody special and frosty :) I posted on http://backyardmetalcasting.com/ aka http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?13-Foundry-engineering-and-construction forum board. what i posted there was the same as here, then this post after... START the refactory cement says Heat Stop II blend of clays and high temp cements. says its designed for firebrick. says can be used for repairs in kilns, furnaces, etc.. 'heat stop with a temp limit well above 2000 the bricks are whitish, a little brittle.. they are good sized, and 2 inches thick, so i was gonna stack em the skinny way and put the refactory on the inside.. should it also go on the outside? or imbetween the bricks as a mortar? i have access to a metal trash can, if i need a structure outside the bricks it'll take some scrounging.. i have a small charcoal grill, which i was going to originaly use. If i made a mix for the lid would that work? Also i have another regular size grill.. its propaine so i could either use that as the fuel, or rip that part out, firebrick and insulate.. (For the Forge) Or maybie i could make a foundry, for melting metals to cast them.. and.. a forge out of the propane grill for heating and working with metal. any ideas/suggestions/comments? -ian STOP NEXT POST START I want to make my own alloys.. wiki has a list of them and percents of which metals. 1) I want to find a metal/alloy i can melt/mix, and pour into a shotgun slug mold suitable for shotshell reloading.. (not a lightweight metal. maybie a combo of a heavy and light metal in an alloy) 2) Also id like to make my own knives (and machetes), full tang, id use paracord to wrap the handle. I dont know much about tempering a knife, (get it red hot, then quench it/repeat?) so when i get that far a forge would be handy.. 3) id like to experiment with making alloys.. and learn along the way. Id like to learn more about Carbon. my understanding is to make steel you take 99% iron and mix with 1% carbon. so i need to find out if carbon has other uses and how to use it, etc.. FOUNDRY IDEA I found a medium size metal trash can in the barn (with lid) and brought it up. (for the foundry not forge.) i thought -line the bottom with silica sand, for weight and heat tolerance, then saw/file my firebrick to line it,and have it fit together. then connect a hair dryer to a pipe that inserts into a hole just above the sand, for forced air. (gap in insulating liner) in my first post i asked about a 4 part refactory mix .. heat stop, clay (crushed cat litter), the sand, and ground firebrick. so hopefully have enough mix to protect the bricks and fill gaps. from filing the firebrick to fit in the can, i should have a lot of it as a powder, to add to the mix.. the bricks are square so there would be air pockets behind them. maybie a clay/sand mix? with firebrick on the bottom to rest the crucible on. and coal around it, fed by the forced air, hairdryer pipe. was thinking some high temp hinges to connect the lid to the can, and put the mix on the inside part of the lid. any opinions, critique, suggestions? END Edit:Metal Trash can Foundry design 1) about 1.5 feet of silica sand on the bottom (temp/weight) 1a) should i put something like firebrick powder/clay above the sand, so the air doesnt blow it around? 2) hole above sand for the pipe, (imbetween brick) i got one today, its about 5 ft long and very thick, about 2 inches on the inside. -inserted at an angle, and supported by logs, (half moon cuts in the logs for pipe) hair dryer end above the ground 3 feet or so -refactory lining the hole in the trash can where the pipe fits. -slit in pipe for air flow control, metal bar with a few differant hole sizes, maybie use smallest hole size when i dont need air, just to keep the pipe from getting hot 3) cut/file firebrick to line can so they fit together, -sand/clay mix behind the bricks (would firebrick powder/clay work better?) 4) room for coal, but 2 firebricks on bottom to hold crucible 5) the firebrick is brittle, so protect it and insulate with refactory 6) insulate lid, attach with hinges to make things easyer. 7) if clay/sand mix or firebrick powder/clay behind the brick, let it dry and cure with lightbulb 8) after the firebrick has the refactory coating, dry (week)/lightbulb again 9) small heat source for some time to steam out the water..

Id like to 'Melt' scrap metal and cast it.

Hi, I'm building my first forge / smelter. i have 19 firebricks and 10lbs of refactory cement. id like to use coal/air for my heat. Id like to build my forge in a square shape, using the firebricks stacked the skinny side, they are 2 inches thick if i remember right (the whole inside lined with a refactory mix). (firebrick for the bottom of the forge, with refactory mix) with one brick at the base missing. id put a pipe a little bit into the missing brick hole, and refactory in the inside to fit it, with a hairdryer duct taped at the other end. I have to work out the lid to the furnace, not sure what i should use... for my refactory cement, i only have a 10lb tub. Id like to stretch it by adding things to it. 1) 10lbs refactory 2) crush up 2 or 3 firebricks and mix in... 3) i have a tube of Quikrete sand. i looked it up, and it said it was silica sand. 4) i also am thinking of crushing up clay cat litter Are there any of the 2-4 things that i should or shouldnt put in the mix? and if i should use all four to stretch the 25$ refactory i bought, what ratio should i use? Also is there a way to make a homemade crucible? or what stores readily carry them.. Also, how thick should the refactory mix be, on the inside of the firebrick.. Any suggestions on what kind of pipe i should use to bring in the hair dryer air? -Ian -i read the hair dryer should be on low, not high so it doesnt force the heat out.. -how long should the refactory mix sit before its ready? -if build it/insulate it, and put a mild heat source in, will this steam out the water from the mix and cure it, so it can handle forge temp? -also, should i put any refactory between the bricks acting as a mortar?