brianbrazealblacksmith

I did not say you can't make a poker that can fit your purposes! I said you cannot make a sound weld! Basher now put it in a vice and see if you can pry it apart, and then show us.

I stated what happens on the first page of this thread in post #7. It is just an observation, not an opinion.

Good illustration, JNewman! That's what I'd call a blob weld. I made one from 1/2 inch square the other day to show this, but in couldn't post it. I also did the other way like they teach, and then I did some other options. Thanks for the illustration , JNewman. I don't know what else to say Dan P. Maybe this will help. If you look at the illustration that JNewman posted above, the pointy piece ( the piece I was calling the "tapered piece"), is the piece that you would not be holding onto. If you'd try it, you'd see that.

Dan P, the one with square stock and the free taper or piece your not holding on to. The one I've seen most blacksmith groups start people out with, not the one Mark is doing with round stock and holding onto both pieces. Try it with no prep except a taper and a cut then fold it back on original square stock then pry it apart and you will see.

Thanks for that link, Eddie Mullins! He is one of the few that have addressed issues that I've been trying to discuss for quite some time. We discussed this a bit the other day on "blacksmithing enthusiasts" on Facebook. I believe it was Nath Oo that first brought it and related it to his experience of forging anchors and passing his tests.

Yes, Eddie Mullins, I enjoy talking about these things, learning more, and finding solutions. I would like to be able to discuss many more things here on IFI. The only weld that is similar in Marks other video that I mentioned is where he cuts and doubles back the pieces on top of themselves. Now his pieces are round, so that is a plus, but the thinning out of the stock at the base of two overlapping pieces still does occur but to a lesser degree and he is holding on to both pieces. He scarfs all the other pieces before he welds them end to end in the same line.

But they are not the same at all! Reread this thread or just try it with 3/8" or 1/2" square stock like they teach it here or just do it in clay. The results are always the same. You have to do something to remedy these conditions like what Michael Budd shows or the other things discussed so far.

ForgeMan32, I was exposed to this way of making tools when I worked with Alfred Habermann from 2004-2006. I modified some tools, came up with some simpler and lighter tools, used larger sledge hammers, made larger hammers because Craig Trnka, the founder of the WCB, said they wanted to have a hammer making contest when he saw my brother and I forging hammers at their first contest in Durango, Colorado. This is an old way of making tools, not my way! The WCB is very busy and has not got around to having the contest yet, but there are several people all around the world that are making tools like this now, thanks to the internet and the people that have gone away from here with the basic tools to do this with others, especially the farriers and young smiths. I will be at the A.A.C.B. Blacksmithing Conference May 16 & 17 demonstrating and talking about this and more, also, at the IBF in Devon, England in August with Alec Steele, Daniel Lea, and Daniel Riffe.

Very good video! Mark is addressing fundamental elements of forge welding that we all should and can be aware of, if we pay attention and notice what happens with our actions. I am sure Mark is well aware of what happens and why in the case of the weld that was specifically addressed in this thread. We are having a nice conversation on Facebook about this same issue and posting solutions. I do wish I was more computer literate. And like I say, just do it in clay. Mark Aspery's other forge welding video is also a very good one to watch. It was posted on Facebook in our discussion. I think some people are confusing these welds with what I'm trying to address. They are not the same at all.

Dan P, the reasons for welding were mentioned by others in this thread, I just asked the question and responded to answers. I'm just trying to have a conversation about forging. In my opinion, or from my observations, the tongs I've seen were welded on for all the reasons that have been stated already: economy of material, different properties of metals, ease of handling in the case of large and/or long tongs, and of course the opinion that it is faster and easier. I just question the use of using mild steel to weld to another piece of mild steel for small tongs and the assertion that it is faster and easier to do it, and welding a 3/8 hot rolled round rod and leaving it at that. I don't understand your conversations. They seem to get personal with you, and you make accusations. I'm just trying to talk about how and why we do what we do.

ForgeMan32, I can't tell much from the tiny picture, either. Alec and trinculo have made some good points. What material did you make the drifts from? I don't refer to these tools as my style. They are just a very old way of forging tools. The Mississippi Forge Council is going to try and organize a hammer making class and a hammer making contest towards the end of this year. We just started talking about it last week. I hope they can pull it off. It would be a great event, and we hope to attract everyone interested.

Very nice piece, Dan P!!!

One of the main things that I want to convey is do not believe what you read and do not believe me. Examine the results of your actions. The evidence of each hit is there to see for yourself.

Anyone can construct tongs in many ways and how ever they like them. I only question that it is being taught for reasons other than using different metals or ease of handling. To actually say it is faster and easier would be a personal matter for any given individual. Most the smiths that I've heard that it is faster and easier aren't experienced enough to make that judgement. It may be faster and easier for them at this moment in their experience. It is taught by some here in America that that is the reason for welding them, and most beginners, of course, believe what they are told. I personally have no problem with either method, but I can definitely make them faster just drawing them out.

Ausfire, what I call a forge welded bundle is one of the simplest welds to do. I've had 9 and 10 year olds do it as their first forging project. There have been a few people on this sight that have done it, also. There is a thread I started called, Another forge welded bundle, that used to show many different applications, and I think there is a picture or two towards the end. It has been moved to "Metal Sculpture & Carvings". Michael Budd from the UK put another solution to this issue on Facebook that I saw this morning. He added a wedge inside the crotch, and he came out with a beautiful weld and the members were not compromised either. Thanks Michael!

Thanks, Jeremy, I'm going to rest now, too.

Jeremy, I just got in from working today and had to cook my own dinner because Karen is gone and I've been answering other questions on different venues. I can't answer everything at a moments notice. Someone should come by that has better technology than I to record what you are asking and more.

Hey, I'm just trying to help. I did post alternatives a long time ago, and it did not get much attention. I did it all again yesterday and today to try and show some of it, but there is more that is worth seeing. I just don't know how to do that part of it. Anyone, or someone is welcome to come and take pictures.

Because, Glen, I don't know how to do it. I'm just a blacksmith.

Exactly, Daniel, but I should have waited for someone else to respond.

Where is the like button? I want to like that last post by trinculo?

Dan Dan Dan Dan Dan, I look forward to meeting other smiths and learning and sharing knowledge! Dan P, let's see the video. Glen, I don't know how, but with the help of others we may be able to convey all this information.

There is a discussion about this on another site where I have posted pictures, but it has not developed to its entirety yet. I do have more pictures to share though. I just don't know how to share them here.

Dan P, you obviously do not understand what I'm trying to communicate. It's not a contest, it's not an opinion, it's not a belief, it is just the fundamental laws of forging.

Don't forget to test it Dan P. Like I said, Jeremy K, I was shocked when I first saw this method being taught, and I guess it's being taught in the UK as well.