Steve Sells

Who said anything about Hobbits :)

I don't do a lot of casting, and never Al. Having qualified my lack of experience , I have to say that those do look like gas bubbles. A better job of degassing should remove most of those from the cast. Also its possibly from too high a moisture content of the sand.

Please read up on zink poisoning. Many of your answers are posted in the sticky. IF you have to ask, then at this point please do not fire your forge. You are not ready... yet Welcome to IFI.

each steel has its own hardness for various temps. 400F for one steel is way too hard for another, or too soft for yet another. Read about the various additives steel can have to get an idea of why some steels like 1075 temper at 350 to get the same hardness as H13 tempered at 950F. Another reason to know your steel, is that while hardening can many times be done with a magnet to get the temp. Tempering temperatures are best targeted using the steels Spec's sheet. that is different for every steel.

Annealing Before we can sand, grind or file our work, we should get it into a soft state. As explained in the heat treating section, there are various internal physical forms that steel can take. I also explained normalizing. In many cases annealing is just a variation of this. But not always, so I will cover various methods of annealing, from simple to complex to address the needs of steel workers. First we try the simple method of bringing our stress free steel to the curie temperature. Then allowing (even encouraging) the steel to cool as slowly as possible. This is usually done by placing the item in a 'hot box'. I use vermiculite, others have used with good success, ashes or other various things. Some smiths will just allow the steel to remain in the gas forge after turning it off to cool there, with the residual heat in the forge slowing the cooling rate. What matters is that it holds in heat to keep the steel hot for as long as we can. Many times this is all we need to do to get our steel soft enough to finish shaping. Sometimes this does not work, because the steel cools fast enough to at least partially harden on its own. This is most always the case with air hardening steels. In this example we have to use other methods to soften the steel. I will cover two of these, which mostly apply to higher alloy steels, but I have had this happen with L-6 and even its cousin 15N20 more than once. There is a method that works well. This is referred to as a “Sub-critical anneal”. Here we take the steel up to the curie point as normal, but after air cooling, we bring it back up to a temperature about 100F to 200F below the curie point, then allow to cool in the hot box. What we have done here as I am sure you have guessed, is to temper the steel at so high a point , that it is at a very low hardness. In many cases this is enough to be able to work our steel. Sometimes we have a steel (such as stainless Steels) that will not get soft enough to grind well even with 36 grit. This next procedure is called “Spheroidal Annealing”. This process is best done with a temperature controlled forge. After heating to the curie temperature, we use the forge to slowly cool the steel, at a controlled rate. There are different rates for various steel, but in most cases, a cooling rate of 40-50 degrees F per hour until the steel temperature gets below 1000 degrees F is enough. What happens in this process is rather than the carbon returning to free flowing in the steel or collecting in the face of the steel cube, It will collect into spherical balls. And the grains grow larger as well. This makes the steel in its softest state possible. Many blade steels come from the mill in this state, but most do not. I admit this is not easy, nor always possible in a coal forge. Even with a gas forge it is costly to run the forge for 12 hours or more. These are posted apart from the heat treating because I did not want to complicate the hardening section. I hope these three methods I have show will answer a few questions we all have had through our experience with working metal.

there is a sticky posted for this section about heat treating it includes normalizing,that should beplenty and yes you can still use this steel. Unless you cracked it you are fine.

Introduction to Heat Treating simple steels. I would like to start off by stating that this is in the blade section because thicker items need different procedures than the thin cross sections we are dealing with in blades. Mill specs that come with an order of new steel are fine for dealing with cross sections that are inches of thickness, but leave the poor blade smith in the dark as to where to begin. Example of 1095, while fine with a water quench for a large tool, when we use it for a knife, it can crack with a standard water quench. In order for our newly made blade to hold an edge, we must get it hardened. Many have asked how to heat treat a blade. So here is a very basic primer on that process. When we finish forging our blade, we have a knife shaped object. To make it hard enough to hold an edge and actually be a blade, we use thermal treatments to change the molecular arrangement of the metal crystals. The following processes only work on steels with a carbon content of 30 points (0.30) or higher, if lower amounts of carbon are present the steel will not harden enough to make a difference. At room temperature steel is in a body centered cubic structure. The cubes of steel have an iron atom at each of the 8 corners of the cube, and one in the center of the box. This is called ferrite. By heating the steel we can change the arrangement of the carbon and iron, into a face centered cubic where iron is at the 8 corners, and carbon is on the six sides of the cube. This form is called austenite. The temperature that this occurs is close and slightly above the curie temperature. Lucky for us there are a few easy ways to identify this point. One is by using a magnet, as steels are non-magnetic at this phase transformation point. Also when you see the color from the glow of the hot metal, there will be a color shift, as the color progresses from orange into yellow from the added heat, at the curie point the color will shift back to a darker orange color as it changes state, then progress toward yellow again. This is very subtle, so trust the magnet. Then remove the steel from the heat, and slowly allow to cool. This is normalizing. It allows stress to relax in the blade. Many do this 3 times to cycle the steel for grain refinement as well to insure no warping. The next time we raise the steel to this curie point, we want to cool it fast enough to freeze the carbon atoms within the cubes of iron. Most of the time this will be done by quenching in Oil, tho some some lower carbon steels will need water to be fast enough, We are only dealing with simple steel here, so will not address air hardening or high alloy steels. When Quenching in a liquid, vapor pockets can form around the steel, so agitation in the form of a gentile up and down motion can break this up andd allow even cooling. Do not use a side to side or any fast motion as this can lead to warping. This quenching creates another form of steel known as martensite, where the carbon is trapped in the iron 'cube'. This is the hardest form steel can take, but it is also very brittle, so we must immediately temper this. I have had blades crack while waiting to temper, so heat the temper oven before you start to harden and you wont have this issue. Tempering relaxes the thermal shock we caused during the hardening process, all hardened blade should at least get a hour or more to relieve the stress. Most take only 320F or so, and I prefer 350F two times at two hours each, with a rest period of one day between. When we harden the blade, there may be retained austenite, rather a small amount of the austenite that has not yet converted to martensite. This will convert into martensite after some time as room temperature or lower, and that is the reason for a second temper cycle, to relieve that also. This is also one reason many use a sub zero quench, for advanced steel treatment, to force the change into martensite. Using a higher tempering temperature will result in a softer blade that takes more beating before breaking, but reduces the edge retention, as with the steel choices, its all a compromise, there is no one size fits all. for further References see PB 0078, and read "Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel", by Prof. John D. Verhoeven

Choosing a simple steel for blade making. Choosing the correct steel is the first step in making any blade. There are exceptions to everything I state here, as Metallurgy is a complex field, but I will try to present this information in an easy to understand way, so we can use this information to decide what steels to use for making our blades. Also most steels manufacturing specifications will not have an exact amount of an added element but a range declared, because of many factors that can happen in the manufacturing process. All steels contain a low level of impurity elements that result from the steel making process. These impurity elements can be eliminated from laboratory prepared steels where cost is not a problem. However, steel is an industrial metal produced in mega-tonnage quantities, and economic production processes result in a low level of certain impurity elements present in steel. Steel is a mix of iron and carbon. When added in amounts of >2% the mix is referred to as Cast Iron, and in most cases this high of content is not good in a blade steel. Most blade steels are in the range of .50 to 1.0% carbon. Steels containing a higher amount of carbon in this range are vary good for smaller blades. While steels with a carbon content in the lower range are often used for larger blades, and even swords, This is not a hard and fast rule, as there are makers such as Howard Clark, that do use steels such as AISI number 1086. And there are people using Rail Road spikes, even tho these are 0.30 carbon at best and will never give a great edge, they are a fun novelty. Today Manganese(Mn) is present in all steels to overcome problems with sulfur embrittlement causing hot shortness. This element also aids in the hardening process, and would be added in the amounts of 0.35% to 0.75% in most of the steels we will have access to. The lower levels of this addition are better for the formation of a Hamon, also incorrectly known as a temper line, because of this aid to hardening. Higher additions make a steel stronger. These steel are often referred to as 10XX series steels, the 10 meaning simple carbon steel with a small amount of MN added, the XX will be numbers stating the carbon content in parts per thousand. But in practice, the content can have a small variance. As an example the carbon content of 1086 should be 0.86 but it will actually be between 0.83 and 0.9 or so. Which explains why two different batches of the same grade of steel can work and harden differently. While it is common for some to use a Rail Road spike for knife making, the "HC" or “high carbon” type are equivalent to 1035 at best, and will not usually give a lasting edge when hardened. 1050 through 1095 are very common blade choices from this group. Another common addition to a steel is a carbide former known as Chromium(Cr) this addition in small amounts makes our steel deep hardening. Normally about 0.8% is added. At higher levels other things can happen, and when there is more than 12% free chrome in the mix, its referred to as a stainless steel. 5160 is a very common choice from the low Chrome group. Which is basically 1060 with the addition of 0.8% chrome, and D-2 has 12% total, but since this has a lot bound up in carbide, is not classified as a stainless, nor is this a beginners steel. Molybdenum(Mo) aka Molly is another carbide forming addition used in small amounts around 0.10 to 0.4 A little goes a long way in steel, High additions are hard to work even when glowing a yellow heat. Nickel(Ni) is not a carbide former, but is added to many times assist other elements such as Chrome in grain refinement. It is used in high amounts in some Stainless steels. In amounts of up to 2% is may be in simple steels such as L-6 or 15N20. A Nickel bearing steel is a common choice for the bright layers in a pattern welded blade as well. Silicon(Si) is also used for additions to blade steels, many times added in amount from .3 to 2% to aid in toughness. In higher amounts it increases the conductivity and is used in the electrical field. 9260 is a good large blade steel at 2% silicon. Vanadium(V) and/or Tungsten(W) also called Wolfram, can also be added to retard grain growth of the steels, these assist in keeping smaller grains in a finished blade, and can also raise the tempering temperature. Usually added in the amount of 0.1 to 0.35, higher additions cause the steel to be very hard to move under the hammer, Most the properties of these two elements are very similar when used in knife steels so I address them together here. W-series and F-series steels make very good blades. The F series and WHC are sadly no longer being produced, but W-1 and W-2 are common, and give good Hamon as well. This is only a start, and is not complete, but only an over view to assist in sorting out the mis-mash of some common steel alloy elements. I hope this simple explanation will help you understand what some of the steel have to offer for your blades. References: Prof. J.Verhoeven, Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel Metals Handbook, Vol. 1, 10th Edition, Properties and Selection: Irons, Steels, and High Performance Alloys, p.141, Classification and Designation of Carbon and Low Alloy Steels, ASM International, (1990).

10xx is for simple carbon steel it also contain some Mn but so do most steels anymore. 51xx is about 0.8 chrome, 92xx is 2% silicon, there are many more and lists are available, Basically the number system tells the alloy elements includes in that melt of steel. there is also an alloy steel with Letters and numbers, as well as ANSI grades, and this is only US standards, other countries have their own thing going as well.

Nice Jeff, I see ya can use that wheel I gave ya as a spare for yer cart.

I have been slowly compiling a "blade making primer" from the content of these chats. They should be in a knife making sticky or as a BP format after I get them ready.

sure they do, you grind them down after they are installed. Also are Lovelss which also need ground, you can always make your own rivets.

Since it has fallen to me to run the knife chats, I would like to hear from the membership about what they would like from the Friday Night knife chat. We have tried a few different methods: Other makers coming in, Lecture style, Open form, as well as a "Blue Print" type presentations. Last night a comment was made about how the chats seem to be losing steam half way thought. I think this may be partly due to people showing up in the middle asking questions that were already covered, or just trying to catch up. Others just talking about whatever comes up, as is normal in a chat room. I don't mind doing the chats, but I can't do it all, I have no clue what people want to know, or need help with other than what I read posted here in the forums. I have started all the chats I have ran, with asking for topics for the night. But this also seems to upset a few. I would like suggestions as to how we may fix these issues, in an attempt to please the most members. What do YOU want to see? Please feel free to bring up anything here. I try to guide the talks, but its YOUR chat.

same here works great, Forget the Evil MS corp. Over priced, less than usable programs.

Welcome aboard, IFi is a fun place, feel free to ask anything.

Welcome to the cross over ;)

Always good to see new generations wanting to learn this craft, Welcome to IFI.

welcome to IFI

prices 150 and UP for anvils 50 to.... so maybe its a flat rare of $3 per pound? worth checking into for anyone close.

also its hard to have or make your own "custom tools" before you have any idea if the function it needs to perform.

This is a heck of an accusation to make! Many, myself included make blades that can hold an edge, and it does not take me very long to sharpen a blade. Why do you accuse this of being a fake? That evidence do you have?

I have found that steel works wonderfully, Read through the forum and you may get more ideas.

I am glad to see that you have joined in at the Forum, as well as the chat. We enjoyed speaking with you last night. I am sure you will find many things to perk your interest here as well.

I should add, in case you don't already, while still clamped, bake your mokume billet for about an hour at 100F below the lowest melting point of the metals you are using.

they WHY would he post it in a blacksmithing section?