joshua.M

I'm attending Fleming College in the Welding and Fabrication technician program, we were taught to use the strikers simply because in order to use a lighter it is clutched in your fist with your hand within an inch of the torch tip, strikers can be used to keep your hand away from the torch tip.

Josh

I live in eastern ontario canada, in winter here its nothing to see a week or two of -40°Celcius, my shop is 30×45 and has no walls, post and beam construction with a shed roof.... The question isnt "can you forge in that weather" its "how badly do you want to?"

ForgeMan32, I can't tell much from the tiny picture, either. Alec and trinculo have made some good points. What material did you make the drifts from?

I don't refer to these tools as my style. They are just a very old way of forging tools.

The Mississippi Forge Council is going to try and organize a hammer making class and a hammer making contest towards the end of this year. We just started talking about it last week. I hope they can pull it off. It would be a great event, and we hope to attract everyone interested.

Please keep me updated on the details for the competition Brian, I'd love to enter

 Chinobi, if you pulled at that weld would it break? It looks like a solid weld to me, and I'd be happy with that result.
 

Sorry Brian if I'm confusing the matter more, but you say welding this way "cannot work", but it looks (at least to my amature eyes) like it has.

Can you post a pic of your way for comparison?

This weld is fine for making pokers. It is also a very fundamental weld to much ornamental ironwork.

 

Brian, if your personal experience with this weld has been one of failure, that is fine, nobody knows how to do everything. Explain the difficulty you are having, and one of the many knowledgable smiths on the forum will surely help you out.

 

For starters, the kink you are so worried about can be avoided by using the methods I suggested, and indeed the method you yourself suggested, and by various other methods.

 

However, I believe the accusation that this weld, in this application, is "wrong" is impotent. It is a very simple weld, often people's first, and there is nothing to really go wrong with it. Yes, there is an inherent problem of wastage and/or cold shuts, as with all fire welds, but with experience this problem is minimized.

I am with Dan I do not get it either.

 what are you on about?

I think I will leave this one between you and your association(s) , I see no problem with the technique when properly and appropriately used. I may be missing some contextual thing here.

This thread seriously needs a video or two explaining what is the problem and or possible better way to do this.

I'm all about learning new techniques and then finding a way to cob it with other skills to find what works best for me.

If i get time tonight i will post a video of me making a fire poker with a blob weld, an one that is a forge welded bundle, and one that is a faggot weld. i will explain the issues/limitations with each and the positive points. I will present it from an unbiased point of view in this discussion and will not reply after it is posted. it will simply be a conversation clairifyer

Josh

That would be me... I'm 15 minutes east of Peterborough in Norwood!

Josh

Nothing ever came of this OABA is the only  ABANA affiliate in Ontario, this past september we had an event at the Norwood farigrounds in eastern Ontario, please feel free to message me with any questions, if you add your location to your profile you may find that there is someone within a reasonable distance you could learn from

Josh

Look up the Habbermann Bend, I was taught the technique by Brian Brazeal, it allows you to set the inside and outside angles without the need for upsetting, and in my opinion is quite pleasing to the eye

Nah, it usually is ok, you throw it into the slack tub and it goes " THUNK…. hisSSSS".  Work fast enough for long enough and you can melt a hole of the size you need.  

HAHAHAHA melt a hole the size you need... my slack tub freezes SOLID

Josh

Notice in the first video the height of the anvil, lower than normal to aid in maneuvering the large pieces of steel and so that the strikers can get full throw of their sledges.

Josh

Wow! I wish I could be a young smith! How do I join???

Probably something like 4140 of 1045, that coolant hole runs all the way through right? use them for monkey tools

Great job guys! I'm glad to see you all getting together and making tools. Keep up the good work, and please share all the other things you've been doing.

We started out with 1-15/16x 4-1/2.

On the power hammer it was squared longways, then tapered to fit easily into a 1-1/2 square hole 3-1/2 inched deep (anvil).

This allowed for an easily installed set in the shoulders. Cooling was required to un-seize the piece from the anvil, then back for reheating. The top operations were carried out to our desires on each instrument, re-gathering metal on the edges, driving it back into itself. Of course this made an irregular shaped face that was a bit hollowed out.

 

Reheating to a high forging heat and another flatter on the face as the front was flattened to desire, removing the open face area. Regathering again to control the outer shape of the face and re-flattening again. How many "agains" is that? Several if you want the shape square, or octagon. Less if you want it round on the face.

 

Then the eye operation was performed to our desired location.

 

Notice things that were learned, and corrected for.

 

When tapering the bar a considerable amount of bird's mouthing occurs unless you spend a bunch of time gathering the metal and driving it back into itself. We opted to cut that end off with a friction saw.

 

We then determined that the amount of metal chosen was enough for a very large faced flatter, too large for our desires. So we then reduced the tapered shaft length about 1 inch so it was necessary to re-work our taper to fit the anvil / swage if it would not fit. Remember we wanted our stock to reach the floor of our anvil.

 

Today if I was to start the same project I would skip out and go fishing! But if I must do the project I think I would use 1-3/4x4.

 

Using 4150 would be substituted with 1045 until I was convinced otherwise. Why? It requires at least 50% less energy to form.

I cannot compare the operation to 4140 as I have not used that yet.

 

Carry on

Forged 5 flatters this weekend with Lyle Wynn, David Gaddis and Stan Bryant.  Came out pretty nice. 

 

flat1.jpg

 

flat2.jpg

Very nice guys! not as nice as the one brian and I made... but still nice ;) (you guys know my sense of humour now so i can say this safely) 

carry on!!!!!!

I'd like to thank the academy, my friends and family, the director, and everyone who voted, this trophy will have a special spot on my shelf!

joshua what would you have?

I would like a good oxy-acetylene set, with welding brazing and cutting tips

These are cool answers! keep them coming! I only asked this to get people thinking and help myself evaluate my goals, wants and needs

Josh

Title explains it, you could have any tool to USE (not an expensive one to sell ;) ) what would it be and why?

blacksmiths have used stumps for hundreds if not thousands of years, they seem to have worked very well up to this point, don't get me wrong... eventually all mine will be on steel.... but stumps are cheap and easy

Wow, tool socialism!

I have nothing against the guy collecting all those. I'd love to visit his collection in person.

Good for him if that is his passion and he has the means for getting them. 

All those anvils are not going to melt, and they might someday be back in circulation down the road.

 

No, he doesn't need all those anvils, but we don't need to have many, many items either.

People don't need a Cadiallac Escalade when a car a fraction of the price would do the same thing just fine.

People don't need a 5000 sq foot house for two people.    People collect all sorts of things guitars, cars, drums, firearms, antique fishing gear, whatever.....

Some people collect a great amount, and others marvel at the collection. 

 

When we starting drawing lines on what others "don't need", that is a path I do not like going down.

 

......I'm always on the lookout for anvils, hopefully finding a good deal. 

Do I need another one?  Nope, not at all.  But that hasn't stopped my anvil addiction.  ;)

That the phrase I was thinking! "Tool Socialism" I'm just looking for an excuse for him to have to send me some stuff! so don't screw up my logic! :P

Black Frog:  Thank you.

 

This area of research is know as Industrial Archeology.  I am trying to save and record what was done in the past by this industry, so that it is not lost to the ages.  If I had not knocked on the door of Crossley when I did and found the last of the original FISHER patterns, they would have been rotting in a landfill.  It has been my passion for the past 15 years, and will be for the rest of my life.

NJ, I have NO issue with what you are doing, you are saving tools to catalog and record something important, you are not buying every anvil you possibly can

I know I'm being extreme but that would mean that you should have no more than 10 spanners etc. and the rest should go to Africa?(where I could buy them) :D

Many places are short af industrial equipment because "they/generic"elected to scrap them some time back. Personally I'm all for collectors in preference to recyclers(as in melting not reuse) so the short supply is sort of self inflicted.

 

Guys like njanvilman do everyone a favour by also "creating demand" and thereby adding value to something the average guy sees as scrap and this in turn allows for many anvils to be "rescued from scrappiles" all over. Anything else he does(no disrespect) is just jam on top!

 

BtW. That's a great collection wich must have taken buckets of time and effort  and more than just a smidgen of readdies as well. Hats off to the man!

 

Ian

Again, I just want him to have to ship me stuff so shush ;)

I hate to see anvils not being used, gives me the shivers BUT I have all the anvils I need, so I don't want any of them. However I have 2 post vices and would like atleast 2 more. I would LOVE one of those industrial swage blocks, I've only ever seen one of them in person and can see 10000 jobs i could do with one. A cone mandel is not a necessity, but would make my life easier for certain jobs. I NEED a real workbench, I have one that is built from 2x4s but I need one heavier and larger than that, and non-flammable material would be nice.

I think that people should be limited to 10 of each tool of one type, and if they get more than that they should be delivered to areas that are tool-poor :P  

Josh

i. would. kill. for. one. of. those. platen. tables. I have been looking for one for 6 years!!!!!!! this just makes me angry, need to go use my anvils.

JOSH

Have you touched a magnet to the core? Pretty simple way to determine whether it is or isn't stainless.

John

Never even thought about that! ugh I feel dumb now

I think I read somewhere that burning brake cleaner makes phosgene gas, which will kill you dead. Can anybody confirm this?

Ya I've heard that, thats why I let it dry right out.

Any idea what the cable was used for in its past life? That just might help to figure out its makeup.

It was used in a crane at a scrapyard for "DA CLAW" (i've always wanted to operate one :P )

You are probably looking at a cable with a higher tensile steel core. The cores are sometimes heavily lubed with a graphite or aluminium based grease so there will be no rust or staining of the core wires even though the outer strands are a bit oxidized.

That sounds very possible, but that shouldn't affect a forge weld if properly cleaned right?

needs to get it hot in the center, and I have no clue why you would think its stainless steel inside.

I'm going to try these suggestions tomorrow, the core wires spark like stainless, don't seem to oxidize and are extremely flexible even after annealing

I am starting to think it is stainless, brushed it up on the wire wheel, ground on it and tried heating it by itself, fo strange flames, flaking galvy and sparking like stainless (long white sparks, with little bursts on end of sparks)

I live in Ontario, we use the same grading system as the US, never heard of 44W

Josh

the one on the left is a tool that should have a handle on it, it is used for making shoulders on tenons square so they sit tightly against whatever the tenon passes through