Thats what I was thinking, but i was trying to do the project on the cheap, I may just hafta try it, not like a plumbers torch & solder is that big an investment & will prolly use it for other things later on.... i mean if it was some kinda tool i was making i wouldnt even consider it but for a butterfly thats gonna stick in the ground or hang on a fence i thought it might be ok. does anyone have any tips on types of solder & flux or tips on technique being the most soldering i ever did was low temp silver bearing solder on knife bolsters about 15 years ago, usually i just weld & grind everything whether it needs it or not :)I really appreciate the input :D