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Jim PPW Wilson shop and Working with Zinc or galvanized

Sun, 17 May 2020 21:55:42 +0000

A0030 Jim PPW Wilson shop and Working with Zinc or galvanized

This should

Original posting April 27, 2011

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A0030 Jim PPW Wilson shop and Working with Zinc or galvanized
by Glenn Conner

I was fortunate enough to have known Jim personally and visited his shop both before and after he moved and built the new shop. He cautioned me about working with zinc and the problems it can cause, so he knew what he was dealing with.

Since Jim died, there has been several different versions of the story with different warnings about working with galvanized or zinc coatings on metal that was heated in the forge.

This article will show you his new shop. You can see for your self how it was set up and no longer have to imagine based on what someone has written in words.

You turn onto a little gravel road and behind the trees you see Jim's place on the right.

Now that is the shop on the right.

The house is on the left.

With the nearest neighbor a phone call away.

THE BLACKSMITH SHOP

From the house side. The dark van and the utility building were normally not there.

The house side of the blacksmith shop. The access road circles in back of the shop. Notice that one side is closed off and the other has the hole for the door, but the door was never installed.

The other side of the blacksmith shop was FULLY OPEN, no doors or anything else to restrict the flow of air.

As you enter the shop, from the left or the house side, you notice Jim's old blacksmith shop is now INSIDE the new blacksmith shop.

This was the out building where he kept the overflow from his shop. It also is now inside his new blacksmith shop.

Please note the coal forge and tire (power) hammer in the center of the photo. The white tank and anvil are located beside the power hammer.

The gas forge and set up.

I poked around Jim's shop till I found the pipe he had in the forge. The pipe he was heating up to burn off the galvanized coating.

The forge was a mess. White powder everywhere.

Even around the opening on the side.

This shows only about one third of the shop !!

Remember this is a LARGE INTERIOR area with both ends open and no restriction of air flow. I would think you could easily park two full 18 wheel tractor and trailer rigs inside the shop and still have room to move around.

Again take note of the location of the tire power hammer, and gas forge (white tank) located where the two buildings are put together, and the two open doors at the end of the shop. Take note of the man door just to the left of the forge.

The zinc fumes did not kill Jim. They opened the door for pneumonia and other problems. -------------------------------------------------------

I will need to look up the URLs for the posts in the forum and add them to this page. They mention that Jim had COPD and was using an Oxygen bottle to assist him breathing.

Jim's own words and post

Posted 04 May 2005 - 02:52 PM Ain't no fun at ALL!

It was almost funny last night. Sheri was talking to our daughter (LPN) and her comment was, "I'm on my way!" Like many medical personnel, she doesn't trust anyones diagnosis but her own.

After determining that all my vitals (except temperature {102} and blood pressure {109/59}) were within normal limits and that there was no pneumonia she and her mother made me go to bed. While I was laying there, I suddenly remembered burning off some galvanized pipe, and called out to Avis, "Avis, go on line and check out the symptomology for metal fume fever!"

Shortly she came storming into the bedroom, saying, "You nailed it daddy, what the XXXX have you been doing?!?"

The conversation deteriorated a good bit after that.

She's not afraid to chew daddy out. (wry grin)

She said (among many other things) that what made it worse was that I KNEW better!

I feel a bit better today than I did last night. Should be over it by tomorrow.

But many thanks to all for caring.

========================================

Vinegar to remove Galvanized coating.

Fri, 18 Jun 2010 19:06:32 +0000

So I'm using vinegar to remove some galvanization. I was wondering what kind of precautions I should take.
Are toxic fumes released?
Is the residue left in the vinegar harmful to touch? Obviously I don't want to drink it.
I assume that if it were to dry out it would be harmful to breath.

By the way the "Zinc, Cadmium, Hydrogen Fluoride and other toxic compounds" seems to be broken. At least I can't seem to open it.

Thanks,
LouieIV

How to know if my galvanized pipe is cleaned?

Mon, 28 Jul 2025 00:26:51 +0000

Hello, everybody! I'm a new smith looking to set up my first forge. I've got a JABOD that I built as a side blast, but that hasn't worked yet, so I'm in the process of modifying it to be a bottom blast. I have a section of pipe which I just learned is galvanized(I have used it, but only outdoors, and not very much, fortunately I haven't noticed any symptoms of zinc poisoning), and this afternoon put it in a janky setup consisting of a paint tray, pressure treated board, and some duct tape. It turns out that duct tape isn't as waterproof as I thought it was, so my vinegar leaked through. So, what I'm wondering:

How do I know if my pipe is fine to use? I did some research, but haven't seen anything about how to tell if all the zinc has come off. I've seen one thread where someone mentioned that they used vinegar, then switched to a mixture of muriatic acid, water, and vinegar, and that all the zinc came off, but I haven't seen what the metric for that is.

Attached is a photo of my weird and hopefully effective bathtub of acid.

Thank you and God bless,

Geoffrey

yellowish coating on copper

Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:46:30 +0000

I bought some copper flat bar from the local scrap yard, it looks like it might be a electrical bus bar of some kind. I intend this copper, as thick as it is, to be used for knife fittings. however it has a yellowish coating(or more accuratley a plating) on it. this coating burns off easily as i anneal it so as to make cutting and shaping easier. anyone have a clue as to what this yellow coating is.

A Curious Thing

Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:42:09 +0000

I was at a sale last weekend that had blacksmithing things and the seller had a gas forge to sell. As I looked around his shop, I noticed buckets and racks with all kinds of galvanized and chrome bars, rod, pipe, etc amongst the other material. I round about asked him what he made and if he used this stuff. Yes, of course he did and I tried to impart what I knew about the dangers involved in using it, even pointed him here, but he wasn't interested as he said he wheeled his forge out into the driveway and "knew all about that stuff". Long story short, he asked me to leave.

I have been wondering if that forge would be safe to use if someone bought it not knowing what it has been used for. Would it continue to emit particulates and bad fumes, etc.... Or would it just all be vaporized or just "go away" after use?

Galvanized, zinc, fumes, and milk

Sun, 23 Nov 2008 05:52:17 +0000

The people posting on this site have a responsibility to pass along FACTS not rumor and folklore when it comes to health and safety issues. Milk is not an antidote for exposure to zinc fumes. Never has been and never will be. Yet, every time someone mentions exposure to zinc fumes several of these ill informed individuals pass on what "some old welder told them years ago". I think it is time for this site to make a "sticky" out of welding galvanized etc. It seems this subject comes up every couple weeks.

Metal Fume Fever and Heavy Metal Poisoning are nothing to mess with. If you think you have the symptoms SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION IMMEDIATELY. Drink the milk if you must but all it will do is quench your thirst. If you have been exposed to the fumes you are poisoned and no amount of milk will change that.

How to Safely Remove Galvanized Coating?

Sun, 08 Jan 2012 20:35:46 +0000

I've read lots of warnings about the toxicity of galvanize so I wanted some input before doing myself harm...Need to weld on to one leg of a hot dipped galvanized triangular shaped piece of steel that measures 24 X 24 x24 and 6" in depth. My thought was to stand it up in a plastic tub with vinegar on the leg that I need to weld to. The piece is made from 1/2 X 6 plate and will require multiple fillet welds, a lot of heat so I'm assuming that I'll need to remove a larger area. Will vinegar eat deep enough to remove the hot dip? Can I do this with acid instead? I have a carbon filter respirator and arm length rubber gloves. Thanks for your help, Keith

Galvanized

Sat, 01 Apr 2023 19:14:19 +0000

Any use for galvanized steel, came across about 15 6’x2” solid steel bars and a couple of them or galvanized and 1 is stainless

Plated/Coated drive shaft?

Tue, 15 Feb 2022 01:58:27 +0000

Hello all,

I have done some reading on zinc poisoning and decided to get your opinion. I received an old boat motor from a friend of mine for scrap. While tearing it down to separate aluminum from steel, I came across these two shafts. I thought they would be perfect for some struck tooling, but wasn’t sure about them because of how shiny they are. Should I just scrap them? Should I try to let them rust? I read about the pinholes that iron can bloom through and make it look like the material is all rusted up when it isn’t. Thanks for the advice guys!

Stripping zinc with vinegar

Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:42:16 +0000

I am making a propane forge, and could only get some parts in galvanized. Small amounts of zinc being heated and burnt off I find reasonable (electroplated fasteners), but I want to avoid large exposure to zinc, even though it is a necessary nutrient and eliminated from the body reasonably well for a metal, it can quickly build up to toxic levels. I grind away zinc at least 1/2 inch back from any welds on galvanized sheet metal, avoid heating of hot-dip galvanized, solid zinc or die-cast parts, etc.

It was recommended by several people to use vinegar or muriatic acid to strip the zinc off. I decided to use white vinegar as I had some. I put my parts in a Ziploc bag with about a quart of vinegar. Overnight the bag inflated and split at the bottom, but the parts remained covered with vinegar. I removed and rinsed the parts, but was very surprised that half the zinc remained. This brings up the first question: How long and how much vinegar is needed to strip say a 2 inch diameter x 8 inch galvanized pipe? Yes, I know thickness of zinc varies from part to part, even in the same batch.

I cut up a rinsed out apple juice jug to make a bucket, put my parts in with fresh vinegar and put it in the corner, figuring I would not mess with them today. About 5 minutes later I had to get something out of the garage, and started coughing uncontrollably as soon as I walked in. I opened the garage door and moved the jug outside. It took about 10 minutes sitting outside to feel normal again.

My chemistry is very rusty, and the msds for distilled white vinegar (acetic acid 5%) and hydrogen gas seem to be not helpful. Vinegar vapor is listed as an irritant, but does not make me cough like that. I use it to clean with on a regular basis with little ventilation. Hydrogen gas is an odorless, tasteless, non-irritating, flammable, suffocation hazard. My second question is: Why is dissolving zinc with vinegar so vile? Is there a different, possibly toxic, gaseous product produced besides hydrogen?

Lastly, is muriatic acid significantly quicker at dissolving zinc? I mean minutes instead of hours or days. Will less be needed? Short soak time is very desirable when working outside without a roof available. Right now it is raining in my jug of vinegar and parts. Cost for a gallon of white vinegar is just a couple of dollars at the grocery store while a gallon of muriatic acid is $20-$30 last I checked. If volume of acid needed is similar, then I can wait a few days to remove the zinc, with my jug outside.

Thanks in advance for any insight
Phil

Mystery metal

Sun, 20 Dec 2020 21:42:21 +0000

I’m in the process of making a stock rack and came across some 10’ bars that I can’t identify. Does this look like old paint? I think I’m gonna recycle them instead of risk heating them up as I have a ton of new stock 3/8” and 1/2”.

hot zinc spray finish

Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:10:08 +0000

Hi, does anyone have any pics of their work finished with hot zinc spray, without a paint top coat? I'm ideally after a couple pics that show what the colour's like when it's first done then a pic to show how it mutes down over the years. Google's only giving me pics of structural steel work that's not going to be very inspiring to clients.

I've seen some intricate floral work at a gallery that's got a galv finish on it and it looked great, but I've been warned that my local galv firm are a bit heavy handed with items and work often comes back bent, so I'm more inclined to use another smaller local business that hot zinc spray & are a bit more considerate.

Cheers

Brass fumes?

Mon, 06 May 2013 16:53:36 +0000

Does brass give of toxic fumes? I am wanting to make a coat rack for my neighbour so I can. Show her what I am doing.

Coated coil springs

Mon, 06 Apr 2020 20:47:25 +0000

I recently got my hands on a full set of old truck suspension, two full leaf springs (woohoo!) As well as two large coil springs. Both the coil springs have a slick black coating on them that I assume is some type of powder coat or ceramic coating. Does anyone have any tips on how to remove this safely?

Grey Coated steel (paint or something)

Mon, 28 Jan 2019 08:35:13 +0000

A while back I got hold of some fence brackets and such from my high school. They were throwing them out and I took them because I figured they had be mild steel. Without being able to remove the coating I thought I could burn it off, I put one into the forge and it had a yellowish color to it and produced green Flame. I instantly pulled it out, but was wondering what it could be? Any help would be appreciated.

Confirming zinc coating

Thu, 06 Sep 2018 01:43:25 +0000

Starting to get my forge going and a buddy offered me some metal he found in his dad's garage. Before I take it and do anything, I wanted to confirm that theses are plated with Zinc or galavnized and therefore don't use em, or grind it off first. My instinct says yes

The ends have rust but not along the shaft. So I wanted to be sure. If I could use them , I would just heat up the metal and pound on it to learn more about how to move metal.

Electrical Steel coating

Tue, 14 Aug 2018 03:45:18 +0000

Although this might be the wrong tag I could only think to place this here. I have taken apart a microwave oven and am going to try to forge weld part of the transformer together as practice because it is so nicely prepared for me. I know for a fact that the transformer is coated in some sort of resin designed to mitigate heat or electrical shorts. Does anyone have extra info regarding this coating and whether it is safe to cook it off? As of now I cannot find valid information confirming what the coating is, any help is appreciated. Cheers!

Galvanized cable?

Mon, 09 Jul 2018 23:29:23 +0000

I have recently found a lot of cable, and because cable etched like snake skin I thought I could make a snake. But, I do not want to put any galvanized or coated stuff in a forge so I am wondering whether there is a way to tell if the cable is galvanized or not.

Thanks,

Awrkiron

UK bolts safe to forge

Sun, 20 May 2018 16:53:47 +0000

Looking into buying some bolts to texture and blend into a coat rack I'm making. I keep reading conflicting views on what's safe (even here). Zinc plating is obviously a no-no but are SS bolts OK? Also wary of trusting stores that don't know what they have after reading one of the sticky threads re: castors

I can strip with vinegar but that's just another step/expense.

Really I'm just asking if SS is OK and can generally be trusted or if there is a good UK supplier of affordable bolts that I can forge away all day on?

Galvanized fire ring

Fri, 09 Mar 2018 21:50:14 +0000

Was at the mega-farm-store yesterday and they had a large stack of nice looking fire rings at great pricing--all hot dip galvanized quite heavily.

I've been pondering the notion of a bunch of 8 year olds crowed up close with hot dogs and marshmallows on their skewers while they snorked up that nice yellow-green zinc smoke of the first big fire.

But....at the same time I was wondering just how much risk there really might be from such a thing. In reality, coals aren't all that hot without a good forced draft and the typical camp fire "hot spot" wouldn't be in direct contact with the galvanizing. Curious if you folks would consider a hot-dipped fire ring to be of little risk or a nightmare of a risk...or somewhere in between.

I suspect the few people here who have experienced the horrors of zinc poisoning would definitely have adverse opinions of the risk.

Zinc plating question

Fri, 02 Feb 2018 00:17:54 +0000

I am most likely not the first to ask this but a look through the forums even a google search with the iforgeiron tag did not get me an answer so here goes.

I had a friend give me a bunch of 1/2 square bar stock. It is all zinc plated. Can i :

A) just grind a couple .001s off to get to good steel.?

B)use a chemical stripper? (I aint scared of using acids, been doing it a long time)(and if so any suggestions?)

C) just take it to the scrap yard and get some decent steel in trade?

Also sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, just seemed the most logical.

actually the most logical is the section for zinc and coatings. I will relocate it

Getting chrome off hydraulic cylinder shafting?

Sun, 28 Jan 2018 07:39:52 +0000

I'm gathering materials for a rolling mill build and am planning on using some of the hydraulic shafting I use for hammers and top tools as the rollers. I need to get the chrome off, but how? When forging hammers and such I simply leave it on and it comes off with the scale while working it. The only thought I have for this application is to spin the shaft and use a hand grinder to grind it off then turn it down to a uniform thickness on the lathe. I'm using titanium nitrite lathe bits, I'm assuming the chrome plating would not redly turn off. Also, any idea how thick it is? I'm thinking grind, check with ferric chloride, keep grinding till there is no sign of it then turn to diameter.

Thanks

Zinc and Metal Fume fever

Mon, 11 Feb 2013 21:00:09 +0000

I am just writing to remind anyone and everyone who does not already know, that Zinc plated or Galvanized steels should never be used in blacksmithing. The Brake rotor forge I had recently build used a galvanized pipe flange. I knew about the perils of heating zinc long before building my forge, but I convinced myself that the pipe fitting wouldn't get hot enough to vaporize (1665 F). I was obviously quite wrong. This past weekend I was out using the forge and as soon as I came back in the house my throat felt awful and raspy. The next day I had a few flu like symptoms that seemed similar to the Infamous "Metal fume Fever". Thank God, by Sunday morning I was feeling fine and my illness had past. I have a good reason to believe that my brief ailment was caused by zinc fumes and was not just coincidental. The Bottom Line is beware of Zinc coated steel when blacksmithing and never use them in forge construction unless you are 100% sure that they will not get too hot!

Why isn't stainless steel toxic when forged?

Mon, 30 Jan 2017 07:36:36 +0000

So, with all the reminders of safety for chrome plating and how toxic it is, I began to wonder why it is that stainless steel (often containing chromium) is safe(or at least it seems to be safe) to forge? I understand that the vaporization of chrome or other ingestion methods is highly toxic, I just don't understand why that same element in an alloy wouldn't be toxic when heated to forging temps.

Removing Chrome Plating, from wheels

Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:48:50 +0000

My son works in a shop that does repairs and custom finishes on wheel rims. They have been burning chrome platings off in their ovens! This seems alarmingly hazardous to me! Can anyone suggest a safer method for removing chrome plating? I have been looking around the internet but I’ve yet to find anything that seems definite and authoritative. I’m hoping that some of you skilled smiths can help me.