looper567

Braedon, Great video, thanks! These little buggers get real hot, and they are a pretty simple, straightforward design. I was looking at making a model a little more affordable, since money seems to be getting harder to come by for most (except those snakes in D.C.) these days. Glad to see you are enjoying your purchase!

Ranger604, I just got back home last evening, I read and replied to your email this morning. KYBOY is correct, temps increase with fuel pressure, 7-8PSI is a forging heat in that model. Turn it up to 15PSI and see what you get, you can adjust it up or down from that point, depending on your results.

Robert, Before you dump a bunch more cash into this, give me a call (my number is on the contact page at www.diamondbackironworks.com). I am not trying to sell you a forge, I think we can get what you already have running properly without too much trouble. I'm in the shop usually from 8am to 5pm EST. Dennis

That's a great looking forge! Atmospheric forges can offer excellent performance as well, you need to be careful what you buy though. There are alot of people only too willing to separate you from your cash in exchange for junk. The problem is especially worse for those without any real knowledge of what makes a gas forge tick. I've seen so many bogus claims and outright lies by ebay sellers that nothing surprises me anymore. I stopped selling on ebay completely for about a year because our products got confused with some of that garbage, and didn't want the fallout tainting our forges... I personally prefer an atmospheric forge but there are advantages and disadvantages on both sides of the debate. Our "hobby" forge we offer from time to time is shown below. At 7PSI (.040 gas orifices) we are at 2204 degrees in about 5 minutes. Atmospheric forges can perform great, if they are built properly.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/tls/1761738096.html He is in Pageland, SC. I understand he has dozens of Anvils, might be worth a shot to give him a call.

The Floor of the Forge is 3200 degree Dense Refractory, the wood stove bricks are NOT even close to the same material. The firebrick I recommend for putting between your forge and table is the common firebrick available at building supply warehouses. The brick for the Forge interior is a completely different animal though. The brick for the floor is available from us or from a Refractory supply house.

I'm not familiar with Don's burner but I assume it has some type of "choke" for the air intake. Try choking down the opening on the blower a little at a time while leaving your gas pressure alone. It sounds as if you have a "lean" mixture (too much air for the fuel being used). This is where a gate valve works really well as it gives you much more control over your Air/Fuel mixture. The more unburned oxygen present in the forge, the more scaling you will notice. When you make adjustments to your fuel pressure you will need to keep this in mind also. Another thing I have noticed is some of the A36 steels being sold now have a tendency to scale more than usual. I would imagine that is a result of bad chemistry in the material, as A36 uses alot of recycled stuff, with a unknown history.

kindrage, Every forge in the Diamondback Ironworks line-up will reach welding heat, so no matter if it's a single, double or triple burner, they will all get hotter than you'll ever need (heat is controlled by gas pressure). I say that because many think that the more burners you have, the hotter the forge will get, but fact is, our single burners get as hot as out 3 burner models. With that out of the way, the major consideration is the type of work you are doing and what you plan to do in the future. The Knifemaker models (1 and 2 burners) are just what they say, they are designed for Bladesmithing. They have small openings in each end to allow your stock to pass through, but with no front door they are very limited in what you can get inside. If all you're doing is blades, these are they way to go. The Blacksmith models (2 and 3 burners) offer a larger firebox, openings in each end for barstock to pass through and a large front door which allows greater access to the firebox. These forges are ideal for general blacksmithing and in fact, the 2 Burner Blacksmith is the forge I personally use for my ironwork, along with a single burner knifemaker for my blades. The Metal Artist model (2 burner) is even more versatile still, without the front corners it allows complete firebox access with the front door open, the drawback is the larger end openings are responsible for more heat loss, so it's gas usage is slightly higher than the Blacksmith models. The Metalsmith models (2 and 3 burners) offer an excellent compromise between access and efficiency. They are essentially a Metal Artist forge with end doors as well as a front door. With all doors closed the forge has stock ports in each end door for barstock to pass through. This allows the forge to maintain higher heats with less fuel use. When you need more access, any of the doors, or even all 3, can be opened, allowing you to get whatever you need into the firebox, wherever you need it. Again, it comes down to what you plan on doing, but I say for Bladesmithing, the 1 or 2 Burner Knifemaker is a great choice, it just depends on the length of blades you'll be working. For general Blacksmithing, the 2 Burner Blacksmith is an excellent choice. There are many choices out there in many different price ranges, but there isn't a (professionally manufactured, commercial quality) forge made in the US that ours won't run head to head with, so shop carefully. Even at the high end, our 3 Burner Metalsmith can be delivered anywhere in US for well under $700!

That's a very nice looking forge, I love the design! Nakedanvil, I just realized you're the KA75 guy, we had a KA75 in the last shop I worked at, 7 or so years ago... before I started my own shop. It was a fantastic striking hammer and a great companion to our self contained air hammer. Thanks for creating such a useful product.

Well said. Gas forges are not the most "efficient" appliances for sure. The key has always been to minimize unused space and restrict the openings as much as possible without causing too much back pressure. I have found though that lining material is also a critical factor. So I disagree on the Dense vs. Insulating Refractories. I have seen many dense lined forges which take forever to come up to temperature, while those lined with insulating refractories are ready to work in only a few minutes. Modern lightweight ceramics begin radiating back right away, and with only a dense floor with a small cross-section, your chamber is up to heat and ready to work in no time. I have taken forges lined with dense brick or dense castables, which had a hard time getting material to bright orange, relined them with modern lightweight refractories, and had them at welding heat using lower gas pressures. No changes to anything other than the liner... I've seen it many times. Not only greater temperatures from the insulating refractories, but the chambers are up to heat MUCH MUCH faster, and with lower gas pressures. With all things equal, 2 forges with the same liner material, and same burner configuration, the one with the properly tuned burner and smaller end openings will yield better performance. But to say there is very little difference in a dense liner and a modern insulating liner is, in my experience, incorrect. I have observed, time and time again, exactly the opposite... The Insulating refractories we use also allow us to maintain very consistent temperatures in the forge. This has been not only observed, but measured with our digital meters and thermocouples. I have identical forges in the shop right now, one with a dense liner and one with an insulating liner, and the performance is nowhere near close. Even switching the same burners between the forges, the dense lined forge can not come close to the potential of the insulated forge. The insulated forge does cool off quicker, but if I need to anneal, I can always bury a blade in vermiculite...

That "well known" forge maker has been peddling these Firebrick forges for quite some time. Although he states in his ads the the liner is, in fact, NOT firebrick, the fact is, it's just plain old dense firebrick. Dense Ceramic firebrick WILL NOT insulate, period. It has a very high thermal conductivity, which means heat passes through it quite efficiently. He had been touting that firebrick as the best things since sliced bread until we started selling on ebay, he has since started producing some forges with adequate insulation, but still offers those firebrick gas wasters. You want to get that forge to perform? Step one: Remove the dense firebrick (or "Steel mill furnace liner" as he calls it LOL) from the walls and ceiling and place it in the nearest trash can. Step two: Replace the dense firebrick with some Insulating Firebrick splits, preferably the 2600 deg variety. These are the white bricks, very light in weight and easily cut with a hacksaw. The splits will be 9" long x 4 1/2" wide x 1 1/4" thick. I believe Larry Zoeller sells these on his website. Step three: Close the forge back up and use a 1 1/8" holesaw to cut the holes through the ceiling for the burners. Step four: Don't believe ANYTHING someone says on the internet, especially if they are trying to profit from it! This should make a HUGE difference in the performance of that forge. An extra brick could be used to reduce the end opening size for even greater performance. This is the easiest and cheapest way to get some real performance. The IFB is the same size as the Dense Brick that is already in there, so it is a direct replacement. There are much better alternatives, but they will require modifications to the forge shell. If you really want to get the maximum performance out of it, a complete reline with quality materials will work wonders. If you are interested, call me at 704-948-7676. I ain't trying to sell you anything, but I can direct you to where you can get the materials and can offer advice on maximizing the potential of what you have.

I agree, no forge will do everything. The ribbon burners sound like a great option for some applications, I would love to see a set in action. Planning out your work is critical, you can do an amazing amount of work in a regular old gas forge if you think ahead. In the meantime, a cheap and easy solution being employed by Artists and Blacksmiths all over the country is to use a simple LP "weed burner" torch. Available for under $40 at Northern Tool, they run on propane, heat large areas quickly, and won't drain those expensive oxy/ac tanks! These are used by many people to fill that gap in versatility, and they do it on the cheap. It's not a perfect solution, but for many shops, it an outstanding option.

The point I was trying to make is, you cannot get separate distinctive "heat zones" in a forge by running burner #1 at Xpsi and burner #2 at Ypsi. The overall temperature is regulated by fuel pressure to all burners. More PSI=more BTUs which yields a greater interior temperature in the forging chamber. Another option is to simply heat your workpiece and then lightly quench the area you do not want heated. This works great for upsetting a specific section in the center of a long bar for example. If burning the end of a thin taper is a concern, the forge can be adjusted by lowering the pressure. You can effectively turn down the heat so that burning your work won't be a concern. It will take a little longer for the workpiece to "soak" in the chamber, but like everything else, it's a slight trade-off.