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Ceramic floor tile forge shelf


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#1 CRAFTBENDER

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 06:46 PM

I did a search on this and didn't find a satisfactory answer, so at the risk of asking a stupid question here goes. I have almost finished my Michael Porter propane bottle forge with a 3/4" burner. I got the ceramic insulation #8, 1", 2300 degree blanket installed in two layers and am wondering if ceramic floor tile is suitable as a forge shelf. I got a bunch of it left over from renovating an old house. Is it worthwhile? By the way I'm thinking about making the front and back door out of the same material. OK let me have it.

#2 blafen

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 08:24 PM

No, ceramic floor tile is not a god refractory fr many reasons, first off the clay itself will either spall or melt at forge temps and if it is glazed the glaze will either spall or melt off, and regualar ceramic clay used for tile making isnt the best refractory. I would suggest getting some kiln shelf pieces, they are roughly 1 inch thick hard ceramic refractoy built to withstand high temps, not sure how they would stand up to flux however.
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#3 welder19

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 08:44 PM

Fire brick will work good and are cheap and readily availible.

Ceramic tile are no good, liike blafen said.

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#4 John Martin

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 08:56 PM

What blafen said, also check out this link:
Thermal Properties

#5 CRAFTBENDER

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:08 PM

The bottom of my forge is 2300 degree blanket. I just coated the inside with rigidizer. I was hoping that the floor tile would work as a shelf. While waiting for an answer, I heated up some of that floor tile with my 3/4 inch burner to see what would happen. It held up ok but I know that the forge gets much hotter. I did check out the firing temp for ceramic floor tile and it is about 2000 degrees F and porcelain floor tile is fired at 2400 degrees F. I guess I'll just order what my Michael Porter book says to use. I have to wait 2 or three days anyway for the forge to cure. Thanks.

#6 Jymm Hoffman

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:23 PM

Do not go cheap on the bottom of your forge. I use Plastech 85, or Greenpack 85 over 2 1" layers of blanket, nearly indestructable stuff. Can watch scale and flux puddle on this stuff, scrape it off and keep going. It is worth every penny, maybe $75.00 for 55 pound box. I use about 1/3 a box in a 2 burner system that is about 12 inches long and about 8 inches wide. I fire it off as soon as the system is together. It lasts for years in my shop, with a forge that is used nearly every day, many hours a day.

ANH Refractories,There is a company warehouse in Leetsdale, a few minutes from my shop you could come visit and see how I build my systems (for free,)

or Chiz Brothers in Elizabeth, http://www.chizbros.com/

Edited by Jymm Hoffman, 11 March 2009 - 09:26 PM.
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#7 CRAFTBENDER

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 10:06 PM

Thank you for the invitation. I will call to make sure it is convienent for you. I just put rigidizer on most of the blanket. Does the stuff you use take the place of ITC 100? How do you install the coating?

#8 Jymm Hoffman

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 10:13 PM

Yes. Rigidizer does not protect from scale or flux. You can just lay the ram pack stuff over the blanket, but it is better to pack it down somewhat. It is called ram refractory since they use hand held air hammers on this stuff in the mills and really ram it into place. It is not necessary to do more than use a hand hammer to pack it into place. I have also just used my fist.
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#9 evfreek

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 11:37 PM

Those household ceramic tiles don't work very well. They tend to crack up and make a mess if they are heated unevenly. Also, in a hot (welding) forge, they will become sticky, unless they are high alumina. The local ceramic supply store sells silicon carbide kiln shelf material, and this tough stuff is in a completely different league. It does, however, cost money.

Like you, I would like to find a use for all those ceramic tiles left over from remodeling jobs. They should be useful for something. I have found that the ones with nicely cut edges make great sharpeners to quickly touch up a shop knife or draw knife. Very convenient. They also make good electrical insulators for things that get hot. For example, tesla coil spark gaps.

From your followup post, it seems that you have been having some success with yours. They may be the higher fire variety. I have a bunch of high fire porcelain tiles, and these might be useful for something forge related. Many of these ceramics have strict maximum rates of heating, however, so beware. The forges heat up really quick.

#10 CRAFTBENDER

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 12:02 AM

Those household ceramic tiles don't work very well. They tend to crack up and make a mess if they are heated unevenly. Also, in a hot (welding) forge, they will become sticky, unless they are high alumina. The local ceramic supply store sells silicon carbide kiln shelf material, and this tough stuff is in a completely different league. It does, however, cost money.

Like you, I would like to find a use for all those ceramic tiles left over from remodeling jobs. They should be useful for something. I have found that the ones with nicely cut edges make great sharpeners to quickly touch up a shop knife or draw knife. Very convenient. They also make good electrical insulators for things that get hot. For example, tesla coil spark gaps.

From your followup post, it seems that you have been having some success with yours. They may be the higher fire variety. I have a bunch of high fire porcelain tiles, and these might be useful for something forge related. Many of these ceramics have strict maximum rates of heating, however, so beware. The forges heat up really quick.



I haven't finished my forge yet. The experiment with the tile I heated up was done outside of the forge body with my three quarter inch burner that I just finished. The piece of tile I heated became red but not like it would enclosed inside a hot forge. I'm gonna do it right. Thanks for all the answers from everybody!

#11 Frosty

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 01:36 PM

You can ram it up between or into forms. I use two sonotubes nested together with the desired liner thickness as the gap space between them for pipe forges.

Jymm's preferred refractories are phosphate bonded and very resistant to flux at temp. If you can't find one of these specifically, look for high phosphate or phosphate bonded refractories with a 3,000f or better working range. Not a 3,000f MAX temp. you want it to be within it's working range.

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