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penny or snub end scroll


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#1 divermike

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 01:45 PM

I tried a couple times to do a snub end or penny scroll today, I know there must be something I'm missing, cause they were not really very good. When you folks do them, do you use a swage to roll the snub end while hammerin or what, free hand did not work out to well for me, maybe I just need more practice, but usually by the second time, I will get the hang of it, but not this one, it was not going to cooperate, I could use some ideas, thanks.

When the metal speaks to you, the learning has begun.


#2 Mark Aspery

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 02:59 PM

Mike,
This is how I go about it when I have squared the mass at the end of the bar to a square.

This is a page from my next book.

PDF attached.

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Mark
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#3 Sam Salvati

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:20 PM

Thanks for that Mark, that is as usual incredibly well illustrated and explained.

#4 jimbob

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:36 PM

Mark,
Is the book done yet?

Edited by jimbob, 27 February 2009 - 07:50 AM.

James R. Davis
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

#5 Ian

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:39 PM

excellent step by step, makes me confident the book will be a good one Mark.
"If 'life' is a lesson then 'the world' is our teacher".

"tha' just can't beat gettin' thee 'ands mucky"!

#6 divermike

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:40 PM

Mark, that is an excellent pdf, thanks, I have seen a tool used to hook the snub end on to make it easier to get the crotch correct, but do not have one, and can't remember the probable size to make my own, it looks a bit like a hot cut hardy but is curved over a bit to hook the penny on.

When the metal speaks to you, the learning has begun.


#7 Alwin

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:50 PM

One other way that I've seen a snub end scroll made, and another way in which they were sometimes done historically, is to make a tight spiral on the end and forge weld it once it's rolled. I have seen pictures of old ironwork in which you could make out the lines of the spiral still. Probably not the way in which you'd like to go but it is another option to experiment with.

#8 Mark Aspery

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:05 PM

Mark, that is an excellent pdf, thanks, I have seen a tool used to hook the snub end on to make it easier to get the crotch correct, but do not have one, and can't remember the probable size to make my own, it looks a bit like a hot cut hardy but is curved over a bit to hook the penny on.


Mike,
I don't use a tool to shape the snub end as it is a square, octagon, round progression.
I do sometimes use a tool to start a scroll with if the scroll is a bit tight.

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Cheers,
Mark
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#9 HWooldridge

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 10:46 PM

Mark,

As usual, great explanation and pictures. I can't wait for your book!

I learned to make snubs by watching Francis Whitaker at a demo about 20 years ago and wanted to add to this thread that his advice was to never hit the same place twice when rounding up the tip, so he constantly rotated the piece with his left hand while his hammer stroke rose and fell in a consistent manner (the left hand did all the brain work).

In addition, a snub is typically forged from square material while a ha'penny is usually made from rectangular stock. The half-penny is forged on the edge and then twisted to a right angle with the stock. The best description I could offer for either one is to visualize a circle on the end of a straight tapered scroll. I've attached a couple of pics to illustrate.

Hollis

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#10 mike-hr

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:24 AM

Mark, Last year at the Weaverville hammer-in, I asked Francois to make a snub scroll for me. He made the lemon-to round shape like your book page, then turned the round side up on the anvil, and hammered it down to start the scroll. The transition from round to scroll was very nice, albeit counter-intuative. I thought he'd learned this from you.. It couldn't be a French thing...

#11 divermike

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 10:17 AM

That's the one I was talking about, I need to make one to get the crotch just so, thanks.

When the metal speaks to you, the learning has begun.


#12 MRobb

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:04 PM

Mark, thanks for the info. I would be interested in your book when it is out. Could you send out a note when it is?

Mitch

#13 Mark Aspery

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 12:18 PM

Mark, thanks for the info. I would be interested in your book when it is out. Could you send out a note when it is?

Mitch


I'll get Gerald Boggs to write a review of the book as he has been helping to edit the book. He can post it on this site.

I'm nearing the end of the tunnel - I'm almost at the stage where the light is casting a shadow.
Cheers,
Mark
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#14 P. Bedard

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 08:28 PM

For those of us who don't have Mark's superhuman ability to form a perfect snub in steel, there is always the snub-end tool.
A great example is on page 10 of the book "Wrought Ironwork" published by the Rural Development Commssion (ISBN 0 854070 07 9). This can be made small for the tight snubs that Mark illustrated or larger to make "halfpenny snub end" scrolls. Once you make one (and they aren't difficult) you'll love it I'm sure. They give you a nice, clean flowing line from the snub to the scroll. I wouldn't be without mine...

(sorry I don't have a photo of this tool, otherwise I'd post it.)




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