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I Forge Iron

Shop sign


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I have been wanting to do all sorts of projects lately to test and expand my skill set and now it's time to build a sign to hang outside my shop. I was going originally going to do something really plain (basically a shelf bracket with a couple scrolls with a yankee tool cast iron anvil) but have decided that won't do. I have attached the third sketch I did today for someone to guide me a little. Each sketch was a little different and progressively more complex. I might be biting off more than I can chew but figure someone might see the sign and it might lead to more projects. I have notes scribbled on the sketch but will answer any questions you guys have. I'm planning on collaring the two scrolls on top together and the same with the bottom as well as collaring between the top and bottom. On the upright I'm debating on rivets or plug welds from behind. The sign panel will probably be 16 gauge sheet held in place by friction. I'm thinking that I can have the side pieces closed in a little tight and notched so that it holds the sheet in place. I'm planning on welding up the six or so links of chain from some 1/4 or 5/16 round I have laying around. The panel has changed shape with every sketch, it started as a horizontal oval then went to a wierd rounded rectangle with a wide top, now I'm at a rounded rectangle with more even sides.

If anyone sees and glaring flaws that my inexperience prevents me from seeing please feel free to tell me. Any suggestions including a change in stock sizes is welcome.

IMG_0359.JPG

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I can't speak much to the stock sizes with experience but I can toss out guesses.  Assuming you aren't hanging a solid steel sign it appears to be plenty sturdy to me.  The lighter stock seems a good choice to me.  Thicker stock adds more weight which makes attaching to a wall and collaring more complex.  I would attach (countersink and weld) posts to the 2" wall flange and run them through holes in the 1" flange.  You could thread them to make detaching from the wall easier) or peen them.  Not sure if I make sense here.  Either way, I think it's a great design.  Wherever possible try to make the connection points visible.  It will accentuate the hand made aspect of the sign.

 

Lou

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Make the sign part out of cardboard and hang it on the building for size reference. Back off to the point where you would first see the sign approaching the building and calculate the size where you would be able to see and or read the sign. Old time signs were very large so they could be seen from a distance. After all it is your advertisement and calling card on display.

One half inch solid bar may be visually a bit small to be seen from any distance. You may want to consider flat bar or angle iron for the thickness necessary to be seen as well as a lighter weight.

Another way to get size prospective is to photograph a sign that you can easily see and them measure the size of the sign and lettering against a known distance, such as the door to the building. The sign and lettering dimensions will work out to be very large to huge in some instances, but remember that you had no trouble reading the sign from your viewing distance. There is also the traveling speed of the viewer that needs to be factored in if your close to a road, etc.

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Glenn has stated some very worthwhile advice.  For example, just try reading the hand-printed yard sale signs on 8 1/2" X 11" paper stuck at intersections on weekends.  They're hard enough to read if you're standing still right in front of them.  20' away and 30 mph, you can only see a sheet of paper, never mind what's written on it.

Will your sign be for foot traffic on a city street, or vehicular traffic on a country road?  Simple block letters are much easier to read than fancy script, so simpler is often better. Once you determine how big the sign needs to be, then figure out the best method of hanging it.

 

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Thank you all for the comments. 

Id like to start off by saying my shop is in my back yard and few people (maybe 20) will ever actually see it in person. I was already looking at lettering sizes before I determined the final size of the sign. However this does have a limited amount of space to be able to mount, between the roof line and garage door. I'm headed out the door for my day job right now but will come back and reread the comments and address them one by one when I can. 

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It seems as though this sign is actually intended to satisfy your own sensibilities, rather than communicate to others.

I get that.

That being the case, most of the "Graphic Design" aspects ( size, contrast, legibility ) are moot, ... since you already know what the sign says.

So basically, ... it's more of an ornament.

Therefore, an archaic symbol, ( like a hammer or anvil ) might prove more satisfactory than actual text.

 

.

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4 hours ago, John McPherson said:

If you want to set the bar reeeeaally high, I give you Archibald McLeish - Vulcan Ironworks, Charleston, SC. 1865, (at the end of The Recent Unpleasantness, as noted by the boys in blue.)

This is a study in ornamentation as well as engineering.

 

That gives a whole new meaning to the term "wall anchor".

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As stated, this project is more for myself than anything. 

Im planning on posting a picture of the sign on Facebook and twitter for a little advertising so it will have lettering. 

I hadn't considered bracing for side to side movement but will take that into account.

I really don't know what else to say now since I'm a little lost. 

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So plan it in steps and do them as you find them doable.  (planning to make it easily demountable might be step 1.  We get a LOT of wind out here 50 MPH is not uncommon and my first year out here we had 80 MPH straight line winds so designing stuff to swing in them and have side force bracing is natural.

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2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

So plan it in steps and do them as you find them doable.  (planning to make it easily demountable might be step 1.  We get a LOT of wind out here 50 MPH is not uncommon and my first year out here we had 80 MPH straight line winds so designing stuff to swing in them and have side force bracing is natural.

First step is building a jig to make the scrolls. Then I have to build a jig for the collars. Then I have to . . .

I might make it removable but I don't know just yet. I like the idea and might incoperate Frostys suggestion of a dovetail he made in another discussion. 

1 hour ago, jwilson645 said:

Mike, that is quite a good looking sign. I have some 16 gauge sheet and other stock laying around so come see me before you go buying anything. 

I appreciate that. I was already thinking about what I had to buy to do this project and the biggest thing would have been the sheer. I think most everything else is in one of my piles around my shop. I might have to work Saturday but won't know for sure until tomorrow.

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Just because nobody is likely to see it doesn't mean you shouldn't do something as dressy as possible.  As you noted, this is a great opportunity for you to stretch your creative wings.

One of the things I've always tried to keep in mind isn't so much what's included, but how it's included in the design.  Scrolls are fun and relatively easy to make, but there are other things that can be put in there that will add to the overall look without adding too much to the aggravation of building.

In this hanger, it's neat and clean, but has an element of refinement that's pleasing.  None of the individual details are too difficult to do even if you don't have a lot of tools or knowledge.

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Proportions are everything.  You need to remember that the higher up the bracket is, the smaller all the individual parts will look.  It might look stout and ungainly when you have it in hand, but put it up 10' in the air, and all of a sudden it'll look kind of wispy and thin.

Found this online and think it's a good guide for some of the proportions.  Of course, I'd add a whole lot more gingerbread to the bracket just because I could.....

2111cd1247c70c5fd7440797e0e84dac.jpg

 

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40 minutes ago, VaughnT said:

Just because nobody is likely to see it doesn't mean you shouldn't do something as dressy as possible.  As you noted, this is a great opportunity for you to stretch your creative wings.

That's what I was thinking. That is an elegant one you made. What is that, 1" square and .25 x 2"?

Originally I was going to do something alone the line of the last three brackets in that illustration with my cast iron 'anvil' hanging and debated on a small sign. I changed my mind because I don't like the idea of the possibility of the anvil coming loose and landing on someone.

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Trace an anvil onto sheet metal and have it cut out and then have someone with a CNC plasma cutter cut out your smithy's name, your name etc making it even lighter and hang that.

 

I once made a bunch of signs for a smithing do by tracing most all my anvils onto scrap plywood and cutting them out and painting them black and using the horns to point the way. (bridge anvil without a horn wasn't used)

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2 minutes ago, Michael Cochran said:

That's what I was thinking. That is an elegant one you made. What is that, 1" square and .25 x 2"?

Originally I was going to do something alone the line of the last three brackets in that illustration with my cast iron 'anvil' hanging and debated on a small sign. I changed my mind because I don't like the idea of the possibility of the anvil coming loose and landing on someone.

I didn't make that bracket.  It's just one of many images I grabbed of the internet for future reference.  That file's come in real handy with threads like this!

I would think it's fair to say the back piece is 1/4"x2", with a bit of 1" coming off for the hanger bar.  Could be 7/8" or 3/4", too.  It's really hard to say because you don't have much to go by in the pic.  Just goes to show how things look when perspective plays tricks on you!  Putting the twist in the main arm and tapering the end really makes the whole thing look a lot thinner and more delicate than you'd expect.

 

When designing your bracket, you need to watch out for how the metal will act when under load - especially with wind.  In all of those designs in the illustration, notice how the main curl element is riveted to the vertical piece at a relatively low point?  The curl portion nearest the wall will have a ton of flex, allowing the horizontal piece to move up and down or side to side as the wind blows.  This stresses the joints and can cause failure rather quickly.

In the photo, you can see how it's almost a straight line from the uppermost rivet down through the curly portions to where it's all riveted to the horizontal arm.  This provides the maximum amount of strength possible in that design.

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5 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Trace an anvil onto sheet metal and have it cut out and then have someone with a CNC plasma cutter cut out your smithy's name, your name etc making it even lighter and hang that.

I could do that. I don't know why I didn't think of it even though I think I've seen a sign similar to that once before.

5 minutes ago, VaughnT said:

I didn't make that bracket.  It's just one of many images I grabbed of the internet for future reference.  That file's come in real handy with threads like this!

I have a file like that. I probably have enough scattered between my devices to fill a book if I was to print them all. I actually need to get them all in one place so I can more easily access them all and can weed out duplicates.

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About high wind areas and signs. Be sure the part of the wall is strong enough to take heavy dynamic,  lateral loads. It's not so hot to have a sign strong enough to withstand high winds if it rips pieces out of the wall.

Thanks for the proportion drawings Vaughn good info. Who knows maybe I'll make a sign someday.

Working with the sign guys in highways maint. there was an old adage went something like, "If you can't read it through a foggy windshield at 50mph. it's not a sign. On the road side I'd use symbolism and something catchy say. BIG anvil with a smith behind it pointing up the driveway with the tongs. Anvil horn pointed up the drive too. Can't hurt to double down on the message. Of course the smith in the sign wouldn't really be behind it, just a silhouette on top of the anvil, it'd look the same from both directions. Then again you might have a neighbor who drove from the "backside" you wanted to receive a different message. :lol:

Hanging one for you own satisfaction is a good thing IIRC they're called "vanity signs," though I don't think that always applies. Something cool that puts a smile on your face is perfect. At one point I was going to cut out a BIG letter E from sheet steel and hang it over the door then time folk to see how long it took to figure out the word play.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Hey, Love the sign concept and there are some good thoughts above. I am filming today for our channel here at BLU so I did a quick video on my thoughts on this bracket if you have time to check it out. Good luck and I hope you post up pictures as you build it. Also I would love to see the place where it is going.

https://youtu.be/FwNkukUOnr4

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