Christopher Lawrence Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Hello all! Here is my find for today. These are the first few pieces for my first forge. I am going to take the flat piece and cut it to fill the bottom of the fire pot with a 3" hole cut out in the center for the air flow. The plan is to use the grate that is already there. It it the perfect material? No, but it was free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Not to be mean but from the looks of the thickness of the grate part it probably won't hold up long at all for a grate. One suggestion on that IF you are using it for a coal forge is to cut a hole in it to fit a brake rotor with roughly 2" depth by 8" diameter pot. You may be able to find 2" black pipe to be able to make a good tuyere. If you don't have access to a welder you can probably use a floor flange to attach the 2" pipe to the brake rotor and something heavier as a grate. Also cut some openings in the long sides to let your work piece lay in the "sweet spot" in the fire. Hope that made sense. Also that's just my 2cents from what i think you are working at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Thank you much for your input. We were talking about this also in the chat room, I guess I do not have a good grasp yet on the strength of the material. Based upon those conversations and here I am residing what I am doing. I have an idea about using the rotor as was suggested by many and using what I have as the outer surface; however maybe the best bet is to just use what I have as a vent hood. New Microsoft Excel Worksheet.xlsx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Hey, many of us learn by trial and error. It's perfectly fine as long as you live to tell about it. You are welcome to try whatever and please let us know how it works. I say that sincerely. I like simple and cheap and self made. Otherwise I wouldn't have started doing this. From the looks of it you are on a decient path. I'm just trying to nudge you to simpler success. I honestly look forward to seeing you succeed and seeing how it happened. Keep up with the documentation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 Thanks for that. Got a couple of things up my sleeve hoping to have an update soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 Update: I now have my firepot This is a brake rotor from a Dodge 3500. It's outer dims are 141/4" x 4" The cavity is 81/2" x 3 1/2" Water Bottle for size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 One question is do you have a welder and can use it or can access someone who can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Unfortunately no to both . my plan is to take a sheet of 1/4 plate and have a hole cut in it to fit the base of the rotor . then just drop the rotor in place. it will be a little tricky getting the right pipes and reducer for the air handler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Welcome aboard Christopher, glad to have you. I'd recommend you hit a local brake shop or auto shop and see if you can pick small brake rotor out of the dumpster. If you bring the boys and girls a box of doughnuts they'll likely give you the keys to the scrap bin. LOTS of useful salvage steel in a mechanic's shop. You can cut 1/4" plate with a saber saw if you get the coarsest blades you can, 12 TPI would be ideal. Then you can simply mark the opening with a compass and drill one hole to start the cut. Don't force it let it cut and it'll work a treat. Clean the back side thoroughly or any grit will dull the blades quickly. You can drill and bolt a forge together, no need to weld anything. You're proposed Tuyere is the right idea though the vertical section above the air supply (horizontal) leg would be better about half that length. Where you want any excess length is below the supply leg so there's more room for ash and clinker to accumulate before it starts blocking air flow. Now, if there were a muffler shop close by that did truck exhaust you could undoubtedly get one welded up from semi exhaust pipe for a few bucks or maybe a box of doughnuts. Below is a drawing of the one I made from truck exhaust pipe using a hand drill, hole saws and my little wire feed welder. It's less than 10 minutes welding and if you get everything ready to weld an exhaust shop could do it faster for pretty cheap, certainly cheaper than buying plumbing pipe. Simply make a sheet steel flange that bolts through the lug holes in the brake rotor and weld to the top of the Tuyere pipe. A LITTLE bit of damp clay plasters over the bolt heads and seals air leaks. It's easy, really easy. You don't need a welder to put the exhaust pipe tuyere together either, it's just a lot easier. If you use an undersized hole saw where the supply pipe meets the vertical you can then use your saber saw or a hack saw to cut tabs in the receiving pipe, bend them out and drill and pop rived it all together. Heck, if you want to you can use a hammer, chisels, punches and patience to do it all without power tools. The last and by far easiest thing is making the ash dump, buy an exhaust flap cap and clamp it to the bottom of the tuyere pipe, the counter weight will keep it closed and if you position it conveniently you can reach under the forge and open it with tongs, a piece of stock or a stick to dump collected ash and clinker. Below is a drawing of the thing. I made the drawing before thinking of using the exhaust flap cap so it's WAY more complicated in the drawing than necessary. ARGHHH! I don't know what's going on with the software today, I can NOT get the JPG to place below my signoff whereI want it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Frosty, Thank you much for your pointers. I have a brake rotor already, are you saying that what i have it is too big? I had not though about hitting up the muffler shop for some welding. As Daswulf is also pointing out getting the Tuyere welded will make the build a lot easier and cleaner. So I will get my pipe and doughnuts together for next weekend. I will probably have the 9" hole for the rotor cut by the place I am getting the plate as the best I have to cut it is a hand held jig saw. Thank you both again for weighing in on this. Each note helps me cut away wrong paths so that I do not go down them. That is the reason I started this post, since this is my first build and I have not yet spent time with a smithy there are many points that I do not know. As with anything, your idea of how things should work seldom is when you start to do it. I look forward to sharing the rest of this project with you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Yes, I THINK that's way more brake rotor than will make a good fire pot. The disk is also really thick so it's not so practical to just pack damp garden, ditch, river, etc. clay around it to make a nice level fire proof forge table. It's mostly just a preference mind you but it's a really COMMON beginner's mistake to build every darned thing bigger than necessary or even practical. I rarely burn solid fuels and when I do I keep my fire as small as works. This is my main reason for preferring a "Duck's Nest" over a fire pot.a duck's nest is just an air grate in a shallow depression in the forge table. Your typical cast iron Buffalo rivet forge that says "clay before using" is a case in point, I have one is why. I clay it about 1" thick, the clay is only to disperse the heat cast iron doesn't like intense heat in a small area it can make it crack and if you use water to control the fire sudden wetting can break it too. So the clay is just to spread the blessings and it only thins to nothing around the air grate. Looking into my forge it's smooth with a very shallow depression about 2" dia. in the center bordering the air grate which is cast iron with holes in it. However because the air grate is only about 3" dia. it doesn't suffer differential heating, the whole thing is about the same temperature no matter what so they don't crack. To shape and size my fire I use fire bricks, I arrange them however I need around the air grate, often in a narrow U shape or just two parallel bricks so the stock can pass through without interference. The trick though is making the "pot" laying bricks on their side makes them 2 1/4" high over a less than 1" depression in the clay. . . Darned near perfect. However if you need a bigger fire move them farther from the air grate. Deeper? stand them on edge or stack them. Heat treating? Stack the into a closed oven. It's just personal preference from a gas forge guy but I'll take a duck's nest every time if given a choice, even if I have to use dirt to make the "pot" around it. So, you can sort of count on me advising a small fire pot. I have two basic reasons for hanging here: First I like talking to and swapping tall tales with blacksmiths. Secondly I like helping folk, it makes me feel good; I'm selfish that way you know. It's really refreshing to talk to someone who's here to avoid repeating mistakes and reinventing wheels. I've made a life's worth of mistakes, some near fatal and I freely offer my mistakes to all. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Okay, So, then as I understand this I have a few choices; some easier, some harder. Get a much smaller rotor (say from a small car and not from a truck) Use Firebricks and clay to form the pot for each use as needed Use a pipe pieces instead of a rotor to make the Ducks Nest Pay a little extra to the plate manufacture to press the indent into the metal. #4 is a little over the top but I put it here for conversation purposes. I was talking with The Iron Dwarf in chat earlier and I think he was trying to describe to me #3 but I missed it. If you think that the clay / brick is a viable choice then that makes the forge a lot more versatile. This would change the nature of the build but in a good way. I think that I would in the end want to do it a little more permanent then that but that would give a ton of options that I did not think about before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Oh no, you have a lot more choices than those. Your plan is a good one, just because I like something else doesn't mean you need or should do what I like. Flat out NO on #4. just make your air grate in the plate itself and ram moist clayey soil around it say 1" deep. Or cut a hole in it like you would for the brake rotor and make an air grate to cover it. ram table with clay. Or you can dry lay fire brick in a region around the air grate then dry lay much cheaper red brick around it for a table. There are LOTS of ways to make a duck's nest. However you can use the rotor you have if it turns out to large you can partially fill it with rammed in clay till it's the size that works best for you. There is a real advantage to doing it this way, it's just filled with dirt it's cheap and chips out easily for a rebuild. A good fire grate is to weld bar stock in rows with about 3/8" gap between them and just lay it over the tuyere. A bar grate is MUCH easier to clean and bust clinkers out of than a bunch of little holes. Not having a welder is no problem hear some stock, say 1/2" rd and bend it over a piece of 3/8" like a hair pin. A person could make several and use pieces of the 3/8" as spacers between hair pins or get all fancy and fold a longer length like an accordion. A good claying mix is 1 pt common clay to 2-3 pts sand. The sand allows it to expand and contract with temperature without checking, allows steam to escape and prevents it shrink checking as it dries. The real problem with using clay is clinker sticks to it like caramel corn on a toddler. Then again it's just dirt, it's cheap and easy to replace. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Frosty, Thank you so much for your help. Sorry I was not able to respond until now but between church and a paper to write I am just now being able to look at my correspondence. I want to say thank you to all for their input. I am going to think on this for a couple of days before I make a further action. Hopefully, the next time I post I will have something more to share Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 You're welcome, it's my pleasure. don't wait too long trying to come up with the best forge you can, nothing's perfect you need to decide which compromises suit you best. We've all had to do that and most of us have a number of forges collecting dust in and around the shop. Our needs change as our skills sets grow. Normal normal. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted November 4, 2016 Author Share Posted November 4, 2016 Good Afternoon, Just a quick update, I picked up a smaller rotor that will be more inline with what is needed and I just ordered the 2" floor flange to attach to it. I still need to get the 1/4 inch pate for the working surface that the rotor will insert into but it is coming together. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Ahhhh....soooooo THAT'S what happened to my brake rotor. Crying out loud............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 So since you won't be driving it like that can I have the axles, springs, valve rods, sway bars, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 More power to ya Chris! Keep us posted with pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: So since you won't be driving it like that can I have the axles, springs, valve rods, sway bars, ... Found a ball point pen spring contained within the ash tray. It's yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 lol guys Just a quick update.. My 2" floor flange came in today and it matches up beautifully with the rotor I picked. I am leaving to the Gulf Coast on Sunday for work so I will not be able to work on this again until the week of thanksgiving. FYI Below is what I am going for (below is not mine). One thing that I am doing different is the person who built this flush mounted the fire pot rotor. I am going drop mine in. After that I will clay the pot for a better cone. That cart sells at Northern Tool for $40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Lawrence Posted November 27, 2016 Author Share Posted November 27, 2016 hey all. just a quick update. I was able to pick up the cart today while visiting my parents. should be able to finish this next weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 the only modification I would do to that design would be to make a slot in the side of the cart so that you can insert steel level with the hot spot of the fire and not up at and angle. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 I'm with LBS, the only thing it needs is pass gates in the pan so you can heat long pieces in the sweet spot of the fire. Really nice job, it'll almost be a shame to get it dirty. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Suggest a hinged counterweighted ash dump instead of a pipe cap. Depending on what you are burning, that will make your life a lot easier IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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