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Help! Candlestic Cup


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Mods: this project/ problem involves both copper and steel, so if this is the wrong spot, please move accordingly. Thanks.

I'm working on a candlestick and I'm stumped on attaching the cup. Here's the candlestick in question:IMG_1085.JPG

My current design has a small spike in the bottom of the cup to help stabilize the candle. The stem is forged round stock (garage door spring) and the cup is copper. The problem is that I need to attach the cup to the spike. The stem has a upset bulb just under the cup that it sits on, with the spike protruding through the cup. "Riveting" it with a hollow (depth and diameter of the spike) punch doesn't seem to work, nor does 95/5 plumbers solder (tin/copper, not tin/silver) work. I'm not set up to braze, but if that's my only option I might just buy the stuff for it. Any ideas? If my cup fits the candles tight enough do I even need a spike? How deep should my cup be? If I can ditch the spike, I can attach via a simple peened rivet head like my rose.

Thanks,

AKHunter

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Make the hole in the cup as tight on the spike as possible, sand the spike shiny file a pinch of silver solder off a stick including the flux. drop it into the cup and heat the steel with a torch till the solder flows. Done deal.

If needed contact one of us we'll mail you a couple sticks of silver solder.

Frosty The Lucky.

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You can use EMT conduit for candle cups. Remove the galvanized with a mild acid such as vinegar.

Flair one end and neck down the other to fit the  spike. A bit of silver solder locks it into place. Paint it to match the rest of the project if needed, or while it is still hot, brush it with a brass brush. 

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Can I get a few more details on the recommended silver solder? After a quick search for silver solder, I find silver bearing plumbers solder, silver and silver bearing electrical solder (both flux core and un-fluxed) and 3 grades of jeweler's silver solder- available in wire, flake, and pre-fluxed syringe. What do I want for this application? If I should be using a un-fluxed type, what kind of flux should I get?

Also, will slightly under sizing my hole in the cup and driving it on with a hollow punch give me the fit I want, or will that be too tight?

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Lose the spike and use a tenon on the end of the stalk to rivet the flower/cup in place.  The spike is redundant if the cup is sized correctly.  If you want a heavier walled candle cup you can make it from 3/4" black iron gas pipe.  I actually find it easier to neck gas pipe down despite it's being much thicker, than necking down EMT. 

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I'm not sure I completely understand the problem, ... but will offer this simple solution, in hopes that it addresses all the issues.

 

Make the "spike" also serve the purpose of the rivet, by forming the "head" of the rivet in the center of the "spike", ... rather than on the end.

There are several ways to accomplish this, but the easiest would be to ... braze / silver solder / weld ... the heads of 2 nails together, thereby creating a double ended "spike".

after shaping the "spike end", and the "rivet end", to the desired configuration, ... stick the pointed end of the spike into a Monkey Tool that's held upright in a vise.

Place the inverted "cup" onto the "rivet" that's now protruding from the Monkey Tool, ( hollow punch ) then position the hole in the spring steel "base" onto the rivet, as well, ... and peen the rivet.

All you've really done, is make a rivet with a "spike shaped head".

Using a center punch to form a shallow cup ( countersink ) on the underside of the rivet hole in the steel base, will allow you to dress-off the peened-end of the rivet, ... while retaining a good purchase in the base.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

While it wouldn't be as "elegant", ... a flathead screw and hex nut, ... with the end of the screw ground into a spike, ... would also solve the problem.

The hex nut would be hidden in the bottom of the cup.

 

 

 

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