Shogun71 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 So I was able to get the forge and all the stuff finished but it looks like my timing is out of whack... At the end of October temperatures are barely reaching the low teens (in Celcius) as a high and nights are getting close to freezing... At what temperature is it reasonable to still try and do some work. I would like to try the forge at least once or twice before the snow flies. Anything I need to keep in mind? I could keep the anvil in the heated shop but the forge would be almost 10' from the door as I have a wooden deck in front of the door to the shop and I don't think having a forge on a wooden deck is a great idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I forge even into the single digits; granted, I am not out there for too long, and often build a campfire on the ground nearby to keep the ambient temp warmer. I forge outside, too. What's your situation? Do you have a shed or shelter? What is the minimum that YOU are willing to work with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The criteria for forging in cold weather are: 1. Can you keep yourself warm enough to prevent hypothermia? 2. Can you keep the metal hot enough to forge? Number 1 is a function of how much insulating clothing you need to wear (cotton and wool only!) to keep warm without impairing your ability to move around. Heavy gloves will keep your hands warm, but may interfere with your dexterity. Strong winds will chill you faster, but most windproof clothing is not fire-resistant. Number 2 is a function of three factors: colder temperatures will require (a) more fuel to bring the metal to forging temperature, (b) cause more heat loss to the ambient air, and (c) chill the anvil, causing it to act as even more of a heat sink than usual. So, in my experience working in a garage with the door open to a northern Ohio winter, if you're able to keep your core warm enough that your hands don't stiffen up and you're okay with shorter forging times and longer heating times, you should be okay. Even well below freezing, I've been able to do just fine with no more than an extra sweater and a wool watch cap. Just don't plan to do any water quenching when your slack tub is a solid block of ice. One other note: unless you're working with an induction forge, make sure you have good ventilation! The temptation will be to close up the shop against the wind, but you dramatically increase the risk of CO poisoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 What type of forge? (Coal, propane, oil, charcoal, ...?) I think that for most forges having a sheet of plywood on the deck should protect it sufficiently particularly if you've given it a borax wash. Plywood walls can also help with wind issues. I would leave it open on top for ventilation reasons. When forging in snow I like to stand on a piece of plywood as it keeps my feet warmer. Preheating the anvil is a must (as well as hammer's tongs, tooling). If you are working high carbon materials beware of things "contact quenching"---placing a hot blade in a cold postvise can shatter the blade! and watch out for items flying though the air for a snowbank quench/shatter. Capt'n Atli uses an electric iron to preheat his anvil. Sets it on top when he enters his shop and by the time the fire and tools are ready the anvil is warm to the touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun71 Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 I have just rebuilt a coal forge 24"x24". I have a few bags of charcoal to use to try out. I'm not going to use up my limited supply of real coal yet just to try a few tings out. My shop is a woodworking shop with just 2 large man doors and no overhead door. It is full with no ability to have a forge inside. The forge would need to be outside but again, there is a wood deck just infront of the doors.... I like the idea of using an iron to warm the anvil and hammers. If I get a calm day with some decent temp and no major wind I might move the anvil outside and go to it... If not then I guess I need to wait for spring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I built a 1 soft firebrick forge powered by a plain old plumber's propane torch and used to forge in my basement during the Ohio winters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 22 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: I built a 1 soft firebrick forge powered by a plain old plumber's propane torch and used to forge in my basement during the Ohio winters Not to hijack but I have to ask out of curiosity sake. If you were welding small stock in a single brick forge would you suggest a 2300F or a 2800F brick? I thought about making a small two brick forge for smaller projects that would be too wasteful in my gas forge or when I can't burn solid fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Yes; (what do you have to hand? How often will it be used for welding?...2800 should last longer but is the extra worth the price increment? Is there a difference in fuel use due to insulative qualities, ? I never forge welded in mine as my projects were nail making, small blades and a lot of silver forging so I was trying to keep the temp under the melting point of fine silver for the most part.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I was just asking, like I said mostly out of curiosity, but I have considered doing the occasional pair of scissors or chisels. Of course first I'll have to learn how to make them efficiently enough to make it worth the investment in the setup to begin with. Thanks for the quick answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 remember now that our forefather Blacksmiths made their living by Forging year around regardless of the weather or Temps. I'm sure in your section of the world there were blacksmiths 100-125 yrs ago and the temps were worse so we are told. Are we getting soft? I am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Shelter is good, ventilation is a MUST. I light the barrel stove a while before going out and lay a piece of 2" x 8" x 8" plate on it and come back in half an hour or so. In the mean time I plug the two magnetic engine heaters in and stick them to the propane tank. When I come back I lay the now hot piece of plate on the anvil to warm it up. I return it to the stove when I start forging and keep it there in case I want to weld. One of the guys here who is a full time smith heats a piece of plate to weld on if he needs to weld in the cold and the trick works a treat. Since the accident I rarely do any smithing below the 10s what kind of hobby would that be? Even IF my old shop forge isn't baffled and it's screaming hot within 10' or so when it's hot the thing doesn't shine on my feet. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun71 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 10 hours ago, Frosty said: Shelter is good, ventilation is a MUST. I light the barrel stove a while before going out and lay a piece of 2" x 8" x 8" plate on it and come back in half an hour or so. In the mean time I plug the two magnetic engine heaters in and stick them to the propane tank. When I come back I lay the now hot piece of plate on the anvil to warm it up. I return it to the stove when I start forging and keep it there in case I want to weld. One of the guys here who is a full time smith heats a piece of plate to weld on if he needs to weld in the cold and the trick works a treat. Since the accident I rarely do any smithing below the 10s what kind of hobby would that be? Even IF my old shop forge isn't baffled and it's screaming hot within 10' or so when it's hot the thing doesn't shine on my feet. Frosty the Lucky. Good info.... The accident? Cold intolerance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Jerry went mono y mono with a black birch. The birch cracked his egg, after an extended stay in the hospital and some rehab, Jerry fed the birch to the barrel stove... I would think a new shop might be in order. I say that as the temptation to build a lean to is great but a shop fire with a bunch of wood working tools at risk is a nightmare. It is surprising tho how confortable a patio on the leaward side of a building can be when your properly dressed, especially if you build a runford style fireplace out of an old drum to warm you up. Remember that bottom forges aren't exactly charcoal friendly, it takes a very different fire management to work right. Typicaly a ring or a few fire bricks to add 2-4 inches depth, and crank the blower real slow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shogun71 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Thanks for the advice. I'm looking for some fire bricks just for that purpose to keep the charcoal in place. Dang little buggers are expensive in these parts... $6 each! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kehler Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 If you want some hard firebrick, I'll sell you some for cheap, close to Steinbach. PM me for my phone #. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Scrap 4" angle, mounds of clayed soil, old red brick etc. will work Don't buy the 1/2 bricks from a hardware store for wood stoves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I realize some folks heat a slab of steel to place on the anvil to pre-heat it prior to forging on very cold days. I never have felt a need to do that, but in case I ever decided to, how hot can the plate be before one might ruin the temper on an anvil? Mine is a 170# Hay Budden. I realize forging with something fresh out of the forge is in contact with the anvil for only a short time compared to just laying a plate on it a leaving it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Well the anvil can get over 300 degF. I've used a glowing piece of steel and managed to get the face to where it felt warm to the touch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Well the anvil can get over 300 degF. I've used a glowing piece of steel and managed to get the face to where it felt warm to the touch I guess that I'd be safe doing that, then. I just had it in my mindset that a slab of red-hot steel would/could remove the temper somewhat if left for any length of time, if for only 1/8" to 1/4", thereby softening the face a little. Maybe the overall mass and lower temp of the anvil body would prevent removing any near-surface temper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Don't get carried away, the plate I have is heavy enough I don't need to get it very hot and it'll warm the anvil up nicely. It's also large enough I'd have to put it in the barrel stove for a couple hours to get it to red heat. I'd break out the weed burner before then. If I only had say 40lbs of 3/4" plate then maybe it'd need to be red hot to warm 125lbs to reasonably warm. Still, if a person isn't sure a quick swipe or to with a tempil stick will let you know before the anvil gets hot enough to draw the temper. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I wouldn't have any problem putting a mobile forge on the wooden deck in front of the door, and the anvil just inside. There is zero fire hazard to having a forge on your wooden deck. Even if you drop a hot coal on the wood, there isn't enough heat in the coal to set the wood on fire. Mass, surface area, ambient temperature, wind.... it all plays a part and there's no chance that a conflagration will ensue. Folks use barbecue grills on their wood decks all the time and it's not a problem. And, don't forget that you'll be right there to stomp on any coals that fall. The worst that could happen is that you put a little burn mark on the wood.... but what are the odds of that when it's so cold out? With the anvil inside, out of the wind, you can forge a goodly bit because you're only two steps away from the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 drop a hot bar on wood it will start to burn. Likey will go out when you pick it up though, you would want to have a bucket of water and not have places where hot steel can fall that you can not access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 People burn their houses down BBQing on decks all the time. Well, putting cigarettes out in flower pots too and we're not even going to talk about folk who use turkey fryers on the porch. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Location, Location, Location; I once started a fire in the woodstove lighting a 6" diameter log with a single kitchen match (6% humidity); back in Ohio I'd need a pile of kindling to do the same. Folks tend to give advice based on *their* location and hope that the reader can make the modifications appropriate to theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Location, Location, Location; I once started a fire in the woodstove lighting a 6" diameter log with a single kitchen match (6% humidity); back in Ohio I'd need a pile of kindling to do the same. Folks tend to give advice based on *their* location and hope that the reader can make the modifications appropriate to theirs. And of course we know you're not implying it's safe to use a turkey fryer on your pouch anywhere. We are right aren't we? When I was Boy Scout age it was no bid deal to light a one match fire, you could use a paper match even and no kindling. It's a dessert thing. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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