SReynolds Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 No. 1 do not allow your tongs to become hot. Never keep them attached to the workpiece while the workpiece is heated in the fire. To do so will damage the tongs/make the brittle. So why is it ok to heat the workpiece? Won't that make the workpiece brittle? No. 2 you cannot burn damp coal. Damp coal is no good. It won't ignite. If there is high humidity, your coal won't work well. It smokes and won't burn until dry. So why is it ok to lightly water/dampen the coal surrounding the coke? I cant remember a day in july and August that the humidity effected the coal in a negative way.Did steam locomotives not operate in high humidity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Good questions, I know that quenching ones tongs to keep the reigns cool is common, over heating the bits and quenching them from red could be a problem with tongs forged from spring or other medium steels. Other wise I see no major issue, infact sometimes welding small parts one may want to heat the tongs to help in keeping the parts up to welding temp. as one can make a slurry out of coal dust and burn it, and some smiths acualy soak coal to aid in the proces of coking, I am befuddled by the second question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Greetings SR . Sometimes the student knows more than the teacher.. It does pay to keep an open mind and form your own conclusion. I have learned much from others if nothing more what not to do.. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 Jim, Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, SReynolds said: No. 1 do not allow your tongs to become hot. I was told to use the tongs to hold the hot work. When the work goes back into the fire to reheat, dip the tongs into the slack tub to keep them cool. 1 hour ago, SReynolds said: No. 2 you cannot burn damp coal. Damp coal is no good. It won't ignite. If there is high humidity, your coal won't work well. It smokes and won't burn until dry. So why is it ok to lightly water/dampen the coal surrounding the coke? Did steam locomotives not operate in high humidity? For the same reason you can not burn wet wood. Heat it up, dry out the fuel, and it will burn. They lightly water/dampen the coal surrounding the fire to slow down combustion on the outside edge of the fire, and or allow the green coal to coke up. I keep the coal dust / fines in a 5 gallon bucket covered with 2 inches of water over the dust / fines. When needed I scoop out a handful of black mud and put it on the fire. The dust / fines then coke and forms a cover or crust which insulates the fire and makes the fire a bit hotter. It keeps the fire contained and the fire ball in the center of the fuel. The moisture is driven off and the coked dust / fines then burns. You think they closed down the rail road tracks and rail lines each time it rained, or if the locomotive got rained on? Steam locomotives operated in the rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Well, not keeping the tongs attached to the workpiece while the workpiece is in the fire does help keep the tongs from overheating. The point of that isn't avoiding embrittlement of the tongs, though, as much as it is not burning your hand! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 one thing to remember is historically a *lot* of work was done with pretty much zilch carbon wrought iron and so quenching a hot piece was not a problem. Now with A36 I generally don't have a water bucket in my shop and just let everything normalize to avoid the issues it *might* have being quenched from critical---both for work and tooling! We also have easy access to a LOT more medium and carbon steel than they did---even as late as the American Civil War High carbon steel could cost 6 times the cost of wrought iron. Now you get people trying to learn from the old books or old smiths but working "modern" materials and you start getting problems...We also get the inverse issue where most smiths today are not used to working real wrought iron and so mess it up trying to treat it like modern steels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 I should have commented on steam locomotives operating in the rain. It would have been mean but funny at same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Passing down information orally is always a risky proposition. Even the greatest authorities can fall prey to the classic game of telephone. I always tell people this anecdote to explain: A woman is having a dinner party and her guests can't get over how delicious the roast is. They are intrigued because she has cut a relatively large piece off of each end prior to cooking. So they ask, "Why do you cut the ends off your roast?" "It is a part of the recipe," she replies, "by cutting off the ends it allows the meat to cook more evenly and locks the juices in. This recipe has been in my family for generations and we've always done it this way." Later on, curious, the woman asks her mother, "We cut the ends off the roast to cook it evenly and keep the meat moist, right?" "I believe so, but I learned the recipe from your grandmother, let's ask her." So they call and the grandmother is equally unsure. They visit the great grandmother in the assisted living facility later and ask, "Grandma, why does your recipe for roast call for cutting the ends off of the meat?" "Oh, that, she says, well, the only pan I had was too small so I usually had to cut some off so it would fit!" Lesson: Beware anecdotal information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 Heavy tongs vs light weight tongs, construction material used for the tongs, size and heat of the stock being held, and many other factors need considered. The type materials my tongs were constructed from, my tong weight, etc, have not given me a problem at my forge.YMMV. Go with the suggestions of Thomas and Charles to be safe. Lou, My wife was at the grocery store shopping for a roast. The butcher watched her carefully inspect two pieces of meat and finally placed her hand on both and choose the smaller roast. The butcher said that the larger piece of meat was actually a bit better and would taste better, why did she choose the smaller one. She again placed her hand on the roasts and said the smaller one will fit into the pot, the larger one will not fit in the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted October 15, 2016 Author Share Posted October 15, 2016 LOL !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 Another reason for bad advice/info is when not only the steak but also the original message has been corrupted (or lost in translation). To give an example that the viscosity of air must be taken into consideration in aerodynamic calculation the professor says that "if we disregard the viscosity, the bumblebee cannot fly". Whereupon a joker cuts off the first half of the statement and says that " the bumblebee cannot fly - but it does not know so it flies anyway" and a bladesmith on the net who has not studied aerodynamics tells the world that enigeers are idiots based on the corrupt statement. Another example: The guru says that "It is alien to human nature to sit in front of a typewriter all day" After being translated by ignorance or ill will we get the statement: "The guru believes that typists are taken over by extraterrestials". It is human nature to want to "improve" statements by others so they fit another purpouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 ahhh to repousse them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 21 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: ahhh to repousse them! Rear seat Driving again Thomas? Trying to chase down the sense of Gote's post is a vise I know but . . . Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 22 minutes ago, Frosty said: Rear seat Driving again Thomas? Trying to chase down the sense of Gote's post is a vise I know but . . . Frosty The Lucky. If you want to make a pitch, Frosty, you have my backing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 What, a stipplation? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 just trying to make a pointillist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Shrinking are we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I get the Impressionist that this thread has derailed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Just now, Lou L said: I get the Impressionist that this thread has derailed... Because Too-Loose Le Track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, JHCC said: Because Too-Loose Le Track! You win. That was awesome! You have officially created the most perfect pun ever. I bow before your genius while desperately trying to work a Cezanne joke in somehow..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lou L said: You win. That was awesome! You have officially created the most perfect pun ever. I bow before your genius while desperately trying to work a Cezanne joke in somehow..... I guess your sense of humor is Cezing up? (Credit where credit is due: the Toulouse-Lautrec joke is from a guy I worked with almost twenty years ago. Good puns are worth hanging onto.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I could have come up with Manet jokes but none would have compared... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Watteau! It may be a Smith-ing forum, but if someone could sculpt a few Moore artist jokes, I think it would be Dali-ghtful! And you can't easel-y blame it all on Giotto's post about deliberate Chinese Whispers...my Monets on Watts come after. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 First person to come up with a truly excellent pun on "Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood" gets my undying admiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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