Gunslinger Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Picked up a heavier post vise, 5-1/4 or 5-1/2 inch jaws, estimating 80 lbs. Someone welded/brazed the mount u-bracket to the leg and a metal plate. I cannot put in a proper spring like this, thought about using a coil spring for now or adding a u-bolt but would like to get it back to a standard mount and spring by removing the welds and finding or worst case forging a mount plate. Can anyone tell me by the pics what type of mount this may have originally had? A pic of what you think it had would help as a guide if I need to forge something. It appears to be pretty old, square bolts, looks English made but have not cleaned it up to see markings, there are numbers stamped on the jaws in the style of my PW anvils font. The rest of the vise is in really nice condition, screw and box are excellent. I know it is hard from just pics, but if you could help narrow down a maker it would help in my research for a proper plate. If anyone has a lead on a spare plate and keepers from a parts vise please let me know, I'd love to keep it close to original as possible. Here are some quick before pics for now: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Bend up a U shaped bale with slots like your mounting plate is welded to now. There is a matching slotted hasp (not visible on my pic) on the mounting plate to be secured with a wedge inside the bale which secures the spring on the inside of the heal jaw. See the pic of my 4" Columbian. The spring is aftermarket. (read I forged it. I've thought this is a silly way to mount a spring since seeing my first. Talk about exerting spring force in the least effective way. Oh well I'm probably just missing the obvious. . . again. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Thanks Frosty. I see yours has a "cloverleaf" shaped mount. I've seen these and some that look like two curved fingers coming out like the picture below. Trying to figure which would be more correct for my style vise. I know it doesn't matter for function but I'm pretty "retentive" at times, lol, and I'd like it close as possible. I know most will say just use it, and I will, but sometimes I'm just crazy that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Do you want a display piece or a working tool? The bracket on yours was probably put there by a blacksmith who wanted to use it. It's pretty uncommon to find a leg vise with the "correct" plate, they get lost easily. I have the probably, maybe original brackets on my two vises, this 4" Columbian and the 5" Indian chief, both are "clover leaf". Without knowing the make of yours it's not going to be possible to find a "correct" bracket even if you lucked into one you wouldn't know. There's nothing wrong with making tools as original as possible, I like all original tools myself I just don't go to much trouble "restoring" them. That's me though, heck I even paint them my shop colors. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 Hmmm, I need some shop colors. It's a strong old repair, I'm sure it'll be fine but right now there is no spring. Since I was going to do some work on it for that anyways I figured I'd try to get it "correct". For now I will use a coil spring but no shop colors until it's right, at least in my mind I need to cut the weld to use a leaf type spring so hopefully I can find a plate of some sort. Looking through eBay just now for parts and there is a plate for a 6" vise, has dimensions and pics so I have something to go by. The price is ridiculous but the info is priceless. ETA: going with the cloverleaf style mount. Seems appropriate for the u-bracket I have. I'll search for parts until I can make one, coil spring in the mean time. Thanks for the advise Frosty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 If ya want to get fancy, you can make a mounting bracket like Darryl Nelson. Or just go with the standard cloverleaf. And if you are reeeeally 'retentive', you can make a floor plate to cup the leg. That is the part that almost no one has ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aessinus Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Way to go John! I had already grabbed a sketch pad to draw before I saw your post. What the devil is the proper nomenclature for the tapered mount key set? Jib key & wedge? Websearch didn't like any of my tries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Since these are so very often replaced/crafted by the user; the "right" style for your region might be based on what the local smiths preferred. Or what the Blacksmith liked. I tend to go towards the later columbian U bolt mounts as they are easier and faster to build and get a vise into use; helps that I have a bunch of Columbians in my shops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 10 hours ago, Gunslinger said: Someone welded/brazed the mount u-bracket to the leg and a metal plate. I cannot put in a proper spring like this IMHO you're building an unnecessary box to try to think out of. If you want your vice to be "original" then I can understand, but if you want functional it's a different story. All the spring has to do is provide enough force to separate the jaws when you loosen the screw. There's nothing that says the spring has to be held in place by the mounting bracket. The spring can fastened to the other leg with it's own bracket and even be "upside down" compared to what you are used to seeing. As long as it's not in your way and opens the jaws it's fine. I think you may find the coil spring more trouble than finding another way to mount a leaf type spring, but I've been wrong before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 8 hours ago, John McPherson said: If ya want to get fancy, you can make a mounting bracket like Darryl Nelson. Or just go with the standard cloverleaf. And if you are reeeeally 'retentive', you can make a floor plate to cup the leg. That is the part that almost no one has ever seen. Thanks for the pics. I honestly had never seen one with a floor plate. That's something to keep an eye out for. 2 hours ago, Buzzkill said: IMHO you're building an unnecessary box to try to think out of. If you want your vice to be "original" then I can understand, but if you want functional it's a different story. All the spring has to do is provide enough force to separate the jaws when you loosen the screw. There's nothing that says the spring has to be held in place by the mounting bracket. The spring can fastened to the other leg with it's own bracket and even be "upside down" compared to what you are used to seeing. As long as it's not in your way and opens the jaws it's fine. I think you may find the coil spring more trouble than finding another way to mount a leaf type spring, but I've been wrong before. I can easily make it functional with a u-bolt or coil spring, but I want it close to original looking as possible. The piece has history, I want to add my part to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I see a floor flange turning into a leg vise floor plate in the near future. To get one working U bolts work a treat and it doesn't need to be spring steel, mild works fine it only needs enough force to open the jaws. As a little forum thing that helps keep things neater. When you quote a post with pictures in it highlight and delete all but the one(s) you want to reference. Say delete all but the pic of the floor plate in the last post. It's not a rule but it keeps things neater. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Gunslinger, nothing wrong with wanting your tools to look more original. Since you are set on it, go for it. It can be fun and fulfilling to repair a good old tool back to functional and aesthetic condition. You will have to pick a style mount bracket that You prefer. I have both styles, but have only made the split style brackets. One I made is like on the one you pictured as an example. That was for my big post vise. Another one Crazy Ivan and I made for another vise I have. It's split as well but attaches like the second of Johns pictures. I have a bracket for a Columbian vise that takes the U bolt. I spotted it in a pile of scrap at an auction and bought it. Unfortunately the vise was welded to a huge welding table and the winning bidder of the table didn't want to part with it. Good luck with the repair and be sure to get some pictures to put up here as you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Picked up another smaller one, appears to be cast, going to use the bracket as a template and size it up. Got it like this but it cleaned up nice, works well after putting the spring and bracket in the right spot. Old pic: Jaw stamped 35 and screw box has 0-35 cast on it. No other markings yet. Jaws have all their cross hatching still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Can you tell me how you determine that the cross hatching is original and not just redone sometime later in it's life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: Can you tell me how you determine that the cross hatching is original and not just redone sometime later in it's life? Semi-educated guess based on overall condition. Looks like it had a fairly easy life up to this point. Either way I'm happy to have a second smaller vise and now have a pattern to scale up for the mount and wedges of my larger vise. Going in the electrolysis tank this weekend, I'll put up a pic after its cleaned. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I think I need better eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 2016-10-14 at 8:05 AM, Frosty said: The spring is aftermarket. (read I forged it. I've thought this is a silly way to mount a spring since seeing my first. Talk about exerting spring force in the least effective way. Oh well I'm probably just missing the obvious. . . again. Frosty The Lucky. Frosty, I could think out a reason. If you put the spring this way, the bending in the spring is less so you can use a soft steel. There is less risk of deforming the spring. Of course it needs to be heavier to excert the same moment on the jaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmato Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I have seen that first vice on the A2 craigslist for the last 5 months and based on the asking price, it'll be there for 5 years. The newest one you got has the spring and mount correct, just needs slid up. I just picked up my 5th leg vice this week. have yet to clean it all up but it's a fairly old one based on the hinge pin held in with a tapered peg and the mount as well. (goes through the leg and spring) weighs around 90# I'll post pics of all mine at some point if anyone really cares. only one is in use right now anyways Todd P.S. based on your avatar....... how happy are you with the movies being made and Edris Elba as Roland ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 I have a question about the mount, were they typically forged from one piece? Would you start with some say 1" square and draw out the cloverleaf, then drill and file the slot? Or would you use flat stock and bend up the slotted end then weld it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Yes. As these were made for several centuries by THOUSANDS of different smiths and both industrially and locally there were made pretty much any way you can think of. Most shopmade mounting brackets I have seen were "U" shaped with a slot in both sides that the wedges went though. Industrial (new) mounts often had the flat plate for the bench and the U that went around the vise stationary leg and spring and then had a slot that would match up with the one on the mounting plate. Columbians even sometimes used a system that looked more like a U bolt and a piece of angle iron (if you can source some angle iron with radically different lengths, use the short one up against the vise leg and cut out the design you like on the long side to mount on the bench. I've been known to heat an UNPLATED U bolt in the forge and fit it to the vise.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmato Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 I have 2 "cloverleaf" mounts, one older 'double wedge' and obviously forge welded together, the other was factory made (Arthur O'Leary) using a U-bolt Here are the mounts for the ones I have. these tend to be the 3 styles you'll see and are in order of oldest to newest..... Oldest: mortise/tenon style. Goes through the leg and spring, secured with a tapered wedge. (you can see the tenon is forge welded on) Middle: double wedge style. Has a flat strap that wraps around the leg and holds it against the mount. uses an opposed double wedge to tighten/secure it. (Likely forged from bar stock. can also see the welded eyelet) Newest: U-bolt style. Self explanatory and the easiest to duplicate using angle iron etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigb Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Thanks for those pics desmato, a mount for one of my vises is on my to do list and the pics help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmato Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I could do better pics if needed. those were quick cameraphone shots off the cuff for the post. just say the word. seems like all the vices I've seen that have the pivot peg held in with a tapered wedge all use the "tenon" style mount, whereas the treaded pivot uses either the 'double wedge' or 'U-bolt" based on the age. Really, to get it useable, a piece of angle iron and a u-bolt will work for all vices as Thomas P. said... The top vice (laying on the floor) is about 100# and I always fear snapping that tenon off with heavy twisting etc. I may make a u-bolt mount for it to preserve the original mount as that vice is an early 1800's by my estimation. Seeing as I have it down for cleaning, now's the perfect time. Todd On 11/15/2016 at 9:49 PM, bigb said: I have a question about the mount, were they typically forged from one piece? Would you start with some say 1" square and draw out the cloverleaf, then drill and file the slot? Or would you use flat stock and bend up the slotted end then weld it? The wedge style cloverleaf I have is forged down from a solid 1-1/2" bar and the strap is 5/16" .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now