Starlight Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Ok, a customer has ordered 8 panels approximately 3'x4'. Picture a fireplace screen that has 1/8" rusted material instead of screen. The corners will be lapped and the 1/8 inch will be riveted to the frame. The frame will be edge beveled with the hand hammer- heavy texture and the interior of the frames will be lightly textured with a hand hammer. Now here is the challenging part for me. The frame has 3 sides made of 4"x 1/4". The fourth side is one of the longer sides and is 7"x1/4". I hope to take longer heats (2') and have been advised by a smith that has made some pretty big fireplace screens out of 1/4 inch that my material will get pretty wavy and wangly if I don't hammer on a lot of support (like a giant I-Beam). I have done similar work with material half the length (the radiant heat was something that would make Lucifer proud) but I haven't worked with longer sections. Any ideas on hammer support? I would like to keep the material relatively straight as possible because correcting this thickness and width can be time consuming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hammer support? Working material like that is going to be a real chore keeping it from looking like bacon. All you're doing is texturing right? What kind of texture, hammer marking like old timey lamp shades, etc? For something like that I'd be might tempted to turn an old yard sale lawn mower into a chain flail. Taking a long heat then trying to work it is inviting wonkyness. So, how about rigging roller helpers at the same level as the anvil face. Then put a tunnel forge next to the anvil. Draw the stock through the forge and texture it maybe pass it across a large clean block of wood and true it up with a whocker while the next section heats. Were I to have enough of a run I'd make textured forge roller and do it cold. If someone were to insist it be "hand" forged I'd send them elsewhere. That's a power tool job. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I have textured many 1/4" thick x 6" plates by hand with a 6.3lb rounding hammer - - you want to do 2ft heats? - by hand you will have your hands full to get texturing done and straightening done in each heat - more like 4"-6" heats for hand hammering. - not sure if you have a power hammer but - the wave correcting and straightening is done "while" texturing so as it does not get away from you - have a great time - I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 49 minutes ago, Frosty said: For something like that I'd be might tempted to turn an old yard sale lawn mower into a chain flail LOL- That would be interesting. 49 minutes ago, Frosty said: Taking a long heat then trying to work it is inviting wonkyness. So, how about rigging roller helpers at the same level as the anvil face. Then put a tunnel forge next to the anvil. Draw the stock through the forge and texture it maybe pass it across a large clean block of wood and true it up with a whocker while the next section heats. With the longer heats I'm actually concerned that I might end up looking like bacon...so maybe shorter segments are wise. I like "your assembly line" thoughts too, Frosty 34 minutes ago, jeremy k said: I have textured many 1/4" thick x 6" plates by hand with a 6.3lb rounding hammer - - you want to do 2ft heats? - by hand you will have your hands full to get texturing done and straightening done in each heat - more like 4"-6" heats for hand hammering. - not sure if you have a power hammer but - the wave correcting and straightening is done "while" texturing so as it does not get away from you - have a great time - I do. Jeremy, That is a pretty big rounding hammer, maybe I could modify a small sledge. I am currently setting up a 85lb power hammer (2.5"x4" flat dies) but, 1) I'm not 100% sure how I would use it with this job (ideas?), and 2) I think it will finally be together when this job needs to be out the door (though I may be able to delay the customer and speed up the hammer if it would be an advantage). Good input guys, I will try playing with shorter sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 you mite set up a hand air hammer to use to texture plate work to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Never have used air tools in any of my work but I am waiting on a 7.5 horse compressor to run the new utility hammer. Could be worth a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Utility hammer + texturing dies + heat and flatten with a press, (I have a friend who used to own a screwpress made for embossing the "tin" ceiling panels that had a large ram and anvil that would be great for something like this but hydraulic would do) Then a final trim to size and Roberto es su Tio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 Roberto is his uncle? That would probably be the ultimate Thomas but unfortunately no press and my new compressor is in limbo, company I ordered it from has apparently dropped off the face of the earth- guess life is happening as we speak. I was in the shop this morning banging on a sample of my 1/4x7x4'. It's doable by hand in short heats. The metal supplier surprised me and sent a couple of large drops of the 7 inch so I'm using one to straighten on (on my cement floor). Primitive but workable since I only have 10 pieces of this bigger stuff. I added a small amount of internal texture with a home made texturing hammer, not enough for me but what they say they want. Only changes I can see making now are to use a material handler (Helper) while I strike. Also, I think I'll use a large flatter to straighten the material instead of my hand hammer. I'll brush the sample and hit it with my 50/50 beeswax and carnuba wax and see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I remember a fellow who fastened a bunch of largish ball bearings to a steel "paddle" and used it and his powerhammer to produce the "hammered all over" look on a piece that required it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 16 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: I remember a fellow who fastened a bunch of largish ball bearings to a steel "paddle" and used it and his powerhammer to produce the "hammered all over" look on a piece that required it That sounds like a cool idea. I think these guys are looking for a "rust pitted then cleaned up' look. They have modified their plans a few times and driven a couple of contractors out the door. Folks that are surviving are just Rollin with it. When they change plans they pay you for your work so far and kindly ask you to recycle it, so I'm trying to roll with it and leave my ego at the door. All that to say, yesterday the plan wasn't the hammered all over look, but tomorrow it might be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Starlight said: When they change plans they pay you for your work so far Makes all the difference in the world! Especially if they give you the pieces to re-use on other projects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 So long as they're paying for changes it's their dime. have you ever seen a baseball pitching machine? A rapidly turning wheel running just above a track that a baseball fits. Drop a ball in from above and when it touches the wheel it's fired out the shoot. Yes? Now make one that shoots steel ball bearings at say 250mph. in a heavy duty cabinet of course, put a hopper and drawer at the bottom so you can scoop bearings out and feed them back in the feed hopper. It'd probably be fun, you could sell tickets. If they want a rust pitted effect think acid etch. If you have time salt and vinegar will rust steel fast. Not as fast as muriatic or Nitric though but they're hazmats. Hmmm, a rosebud and needle scaler might do the trick. You'll still run the risk of turning yourself into a rasher of bacon of course. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 Traditional method was to bury it under a manure pile in a damp location---and to remember to drag it out before it disappears! Also sourcing metal pre-distressed at scrapyards, however any forging,welding,grinding usually messes up the original surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlight Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Just brought them a sample section that I hit a few times with a texturing hammer, edge hammer beveled and left most of the scale on (hit it with the wire wheel). Got the big thumbs-up. Personally I like the scale removed but to each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 On 6/2/2016 at 2:57 AM, Frosty said: Now make one that shoots steel ball bearings at say 250mph. in a heavy duty cabinet of course, Frosty The Lucky. Shot blast cabinets have been with us for decades. There are others, but the ones I'm most familiar with, are made by a company that calls itself "Wheelabrator", ... and of course, Pangborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 A group of maybe five or six kids each set up with gloves, long clothes, closed toe shoes, ear muffs, safety glasses and an 8 ounce ball pein would give you a whole lot of random dings in a piece of metal. Paint a spot for each kid to hit with the pein and tell them to keep trying until they knock it off. You might become the most popular after-school activity for kids in your area! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 reverse electrolysis, when de rusting stuff with electrolysis the anode gets very pitted fast and the rust comes of the cathode ( think I have that right way round ) water and washing soda and an old battery charger and at the same time you can de rust other stuff for free, turn up the power and have lots of cathode to de rust close by the anode and it will be faster, maybe a couple of days on 24 hours a day get a big dc supply for a large area like the charger for an electric fork lift truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Sure, reversing the polarity will pit the heck out of the anode. Proximity of the electrodes is another factor I didn't think about earlier. For instance to derust an anvil face using a piece of rebar or other stick for the anode isn't optimum, instead use a piece of clean steel plate a little larger than the face for the anode and hang it about 2" away in parallel. I've been thinking about that since yesterday when I posted an electrolysis reply but now Mr. Dwarf you bumped my brain into a different track. Now we're talking about the product being the anode. Electro Etching lets say. Proximity is still a factor so what would happen if we hang a specifically shaped cathode at perhaps varied distance from the anode? Oh, don't forget masking the anode, detailed pristine surface set proud over the pitted remainder. I'm thinking a person could get pretty carried away maybe eve pull off a version of screen printing. Picture this, Mask, electro etch, rinse and dry, spray with furniture wax, strip the original mask and degrease, plate the unblemished relief. Wheels turning anyone? Hmmmm? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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