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Is it worth it?


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I've had an add on Craigslist for a couple of weeks now. And I finally got a hit. It weighs 192lbs. 350$ is the minimum he will take for it. It was his grandfather's and his dad learned how to weld on it. Do you think it affected the hardness of it? Thanks in advance.

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If the welding is only on the side it won't have affected the hardness of the face of the anvil, however you can argue that the anvil is damaged and say it's reduced the value of the anvil even though the usability hasn't been affected.

It looks like a good one from here, if you're in need of an anvil, I'd say go for it, though do the rebound test first just to check that the face is still good and hard!

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30 minutes ago, Jackdawg said:

All the comments about beating the bloke down on price - 2nd hand anvils must be cheap over there, I'd have that for that price in a heart beat before someone else snatched it up..

The ones suggesting to haggle probably have at least one good anvil or a whole shop full of them. I would have gladly paid the asking price as long as it wasn't cracked. 

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I'll be working over the road for the next couple of weeks. The guy is no hurry to sell it. I can't meet with him for at least a couple of weeks. He said it wasn't going anywhere. So as soon as I can meet with him. I'm gonna go check it out and pick it up.

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Making a counter offer is hardly "beating the bloke down on the price" In the real world it's just saying, "I'm not a sucker." And don't tell me about hard to find blacksmithing tools, around here that old beauty would've been sold before the ink dried on the craigslist add.

Weld beads on the side don't mean a thing. The nut driven into the hardy might be an issue or are you good with a cutting torch? Even with one of my eyes wonky I could zip that out without warming the face.

That's a good price but don't be bashful about making a counter offer in person and keep on smiling. Ever do a rebound test? A ball bearing or small ball pein hammer will tell a lot about it. I recently replaced the 3/8" ball bearing in my pocket for a 1/2" one I got in a bucket at a yard sale last summer. No need for a really big one I just find the larger ones easier to find when they take a wild bounce.

Frosty The Lucky.

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30 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Making a counter offer is hardly "beating the bloke down on the price" In the real world it's just saying, "I'm not a sucker." And don't tell me about hard to find blacksmithing tools, around here that old beauty would've been sold before the ink dried on the craigslist add.

Weld beads on the side don't mean a thing. The nut driven into the hardy might be an issue or are you good with a cutting torch? Even with one of my eyes wonky I could zip that out without warming the face.

That's a good price but don't be bashful about making a counter offer in person and keep on smiling. Ever do a rebound test? A ball bearing or small ball pein hammer will tell a lot about it. I recently replaced the 3/8" ball bearing in my pocket for a 1/2" one I got in a bucket at a yard sale last summer. No need for a really big one I just find the larger ones easier to find when they take a wild bounce.

Frosty The Lucky.

I've never done the rebound test on an actual anvil. But I got a piece of die hardened steel I'm turning into an anvil and done a rebound test on that with a a ball peen hammer. I am new to this just trying to learn the right way. And actually he wanted 400$ for it and I got him down to 350$ over the phone. I buy sell and trade all the time. It's just part of the game. Some people enjoy a little haggling back and forth. That just makes it more fun. I expect people to throw a counter offer back at me. It doesn't offend me if I'm selling or buying.  Where is  the best place to find ball bearings?

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Bearing supply houses or electric motor shops usually have some old ball bearings laying around that you can get the balls out of.  When I worked at the Jelly Belly Candy Co. we had tons of bearings that we would change out every year. One had .625" balls in it.  If you don't want to scrounge them, you can buy new bearing balls from places like McMaster Carr.

I am all about a counter offer, and the last 5 anvils I have bought were in the $1 a pound range. The last post vise was up for $100, I got it for $40, and probably could have gone lower as it was headed to the thrift shop if I hadn't bought it. I didn't mind $40 because it was so clean and complete.  All the other person can do is say no. Like crappiew it is all part of the fun for me.

 Here are a couple of examples of some of my latest purchases. I love to cook, and pretty much have a commercial kitchen at home with most of my appliances having Hobart on them. I see an add on CL for a 20qt Hobart mixer for $350 missing the bowl. Seeing as they usually run $1,200 used I go take a look at it. The owner has one of his employees take me out back to show it to me, And I notice some cracks around the back of the motor housing from being tipped over. I plug it in and it runs smoothly, but no rotation on the planetary in any gear. The owner comes out and is all apologetic for having me drive all the way into town from DaBoonies and it was broke by someone moving it around his bakery.  So I ask, how much in this condition? He says $100? And I counter with $80 and get it. No bowl, but he did have a whip and a beater to throw in with it-those alone are worth what I paid for it. I'm hoping to find a broken shear pin on the worm gear that drives the planetary. If that is all it is , a pin, a couple of TIG welds on the housing, and a used $125 bowl and I will have a $1,200 mixer for just over $200. 

The other item is a Ultravac 250 vacuum chamber for food, like a supermarket would use, and they run around $4,300 new. The ad said $500 obo. I go take a look at it, and it won't start-no power. The guy had got it from a storage locker sale along with some other stuff.. I open it up and find a blown 1A fuse. Now we don't have another one that size to test it at the storage locker he has, And I tell him I'm not comfortable paying $500 for something I can't see run, because something caused the fuse to blow, and parts can be really expensive. He says make an offer and I say $100, and we settle on $150.  I am getting some fuses in to test it, and see how it goes. If it is something expensive, I can just pull the vacuum pump out for other uses.  But I am pretty confident that it is just something minor as 1A isn't that big of a load.

A lot of times I have gotten great deals because I chat with the owners before offering a price. Many times once they know I will be using the item , and not just flipping it , they have come down from their price before I could even make an offer. One guy told me that he would rather sell me the tools than the other guys because they were just flippers. That was $6,200 worth of machinist tools in a Kennedy top box and riser for $550. Those tools got a lot of use over the last 7 years at my last job. Coming across the right way can open you up to some great deals.

 

 

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A rebound test is a measure of how live the anvil's face is. The harder / more live it is the more energy is returned to the work from inelastic rebound from the anvil. The shock wave from the hammer impact is conducted through the anvil till it comes to a boundary, a good weld isn't a boundary. In the case of a good solid anvil the bottom of the foot is the boundary where the sound wave reflects. There is frequency and Amplitude, the harder the face the more amplitude is retained.

To test for rebound simply drop a ball bearing and estimate how far back it rebounds. You can use a scale if you like or till you develop an eye for it. 60% and up is okay, 70% is pretty decent, 80%+ is good and pushing 90% and up is excellent.

We really should have the ball bearing rebound scores in a sticky, I wrote that scale from memory and I'm a TBI survivor. :huh:

Using a small smooth faced hammer takes more skill to judge but it works as well and it's faster to use, you don't spend the time hunting for lost bearings.

Besides rebound height you're listening and watching for dead spots / areas. An anvil with a wrought body and welded HC steel face may delaminate. Delaminated areas are not joined so it's a boundary and with say 1/2" - 3/4" of depth of rebound the bearing or hammer isn't going to bounce much and it says "thunk" rather than "tink".

Do NOT get fooled by an anvil that has a nice "ring." Consistent is important but some anvils don't ring at all, a Fisher clanks at you and they're a top shelf joy. Others say a cast Swedish steel anvil will make your ears ring through muffs and plugs. I was looking at anvils in a local pawn shop, cheapo tool store and they sounded pretty darned good but flip the hammer over and give it a light rap with the ball pein and they dented. Cheap Chinese cast iron ASOs that had a ring that sounded pretty good.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I can't stand hagglers on price.  I have something to sell I figure a fair price and that is it.  If someone offers less I go UP the same amount and do not back off.   I've thrown stuff in the dumpster in front of these people rather than take less.  If they show up again there is no haggle out of them and if they don't show that is fine as well.  Life is far too short to haggle over everything.  Same with buying if the price is too high I leave no conversation. 

Old saying in the Auto Business "there is a butt to fit every seat just have to look harder for some than others" same with selling Anvils you can't get them at Wal-Mart, HB, TS or on every street corner so wait and somebody will pony up what it is worth and the others can go on beating on their rock. 

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I assume you pay MSRP when you buy a car?   I often know more about an anvil than the person selling it and if they are selling a Vulcan for a HB price I will ask if they will put a more appropriate price on it. They are free to say no.  I am free to walk off (And I have dug stuff out of the dumpster before that I had offered a "fair" price on, dealer was a bit of an idiot as I also pulled out a couple of Eisenhower dollars from the stuff he tossed---who throws away cash???)

Now when I look at something, I set a price in my mind and if the dealer gives me one less than the "What I would be happy to pay" I generally will not try to talk them down.  Like that pair of Diamond shoeing tongs for US$5---good thing smithing strengthens the wrists or I would have sprained mine getting my wallet out *fast*.

There is a special case: for widows and elderly people selling off stuff to survive.  If they are asking too low I will tell them and pay what I feel is the fair price.  Someday they might be my Widow or Myself...I've made more than one person living in an old shack very very happy before.

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I'm some here in between Thomas and Notown, when I am selling I figure fare price and then pad a little because every one around here likes to haggle (exept me) but if you low ball me the price goes up for the insult.

as to buying I do something similar, I offer just under the "fare" price (dang near my max) even to the idiots that want 3 times what it's worth. If they take insult I leave my card and walk away. Surprising how often they call and meet my max.

if you throw it in the trash, your a fool. I have a neighbor take a tractor across the scales because he was insulted when he was offerd blue book for it, he was asking more than retail book (twice it's realistic value). 

I belive in giving and receiving a fare price for goods and services. 

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I gauge my counter offer by the asking. If the asking price is insultingly high my counter is intended to get a howl, if their counter goes up I apologize for wasting time and leave. However a person who says no or asking is firm I shift to deciding if it's worth the asking price. And no, I don't always make a counter, usually but not always.

I don't haggle for the fun of it, I've seen people, my Father for example, spend days haggling over a couple bucks. It can be fun but that's not why I bargain. I do my best not to let ego enter into it, it's just stuff. If it's a high dollar deal I let Deb do the bargaining, she's relentless and ruthless, you wouldn't believe the deal she wrung out of Lithia for a really nice low mileage used car. She even made them give us darned near high Kelly on an '02 Saturn Vue.

Every deal is a play it as it lays thing unless it's a stock item, say coat hooks or doffers, those are "As marked" and labeled so. Some demo crowds, say SCA expect to dicker over everything so I bump my asking and let them talk me down to the real price.

This ain't rocket science, flex is a must but don't be a noodle.

Frosty The Lucky.

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There are two different schools of thought, neither is right or wrong.

Some folks stick to their price knowing someone will come alongs someday.

Others want or need to sell.

If one's price be fair or low I pay it or a bit more.

If one's prices be high I offer fair or less.

I have no problem walking away.

 

 

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I told you you would find one! Aren't you glad you didn't buy any of the other ones you thought about getting? I'm almost as exited as you are! Now get hammering!

                                                     Littleblacksmith 

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10 minutes ago, littleblacksmith said:

I told you you would find one! Aren't you glad you didn't buy any of the other ones you thought about getting? I'm almost as exited as you are! Now get hammering!

                                                     Littleblacksmith 

Thanks Lil blacksmith.  I feel like I was a kid on Christmas morning. I'm working this week. But I'm gonna try to finish my forge and get started this weekend.

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