senator Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 With historically low prices of scrap I decided to take advantage with the purchase of this 770 pound piece of A36. The plan is to flip on end and either weld in a 1" thick top plate of 4140 with 7024 Jett rod or to purchase hard face alloy rods. My machine is a Lincoln Easy Arc 250. The solid weld of the plate will stretch my patience and skill level with a stick welder. The Had face weld will also be test as it will require hours of grinding to smooth it back out in order for it to be useable. Ive read everything possible on this site and at Anvilfire; The copy and pasted photo from Anvil fire site will give you some idea of what I am trying to do. My current plan also calls for stepped feet similar to Austrian anvil. My question for the pundits is if all things are equal, I harden the end cap properly, and I manage to build a wonderful hornless anvil, will the hard face alloy rods give me a equally hard surface ( with A36 base steel ) as the 4140 end cap? The way I see it currently is that the 4140 end cap will be more work but less passes and less finishing. Are the two different processes comparable or is one much better than the other? I am not content to make it into a giant Brazel striking block and just leave the A36 as is. To be clear- I am only doing this to the notched end. Its a 7.5 x 7 square. Thank you all for any constructive advice. Anvilfire image removed at the request of Jock Dempsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I'd hard face it. Trying to do a full penetration weld will be a serious PITA keeping the plate from pulling into a dome. Sure you can do it but it's only 4140 and isn't going to get particularly hard, better than mild but still falls short of serious anvil face hard and for that much work I'd want something in the RC 55+ range. If I had the project I'd probably use 7024 Jet still a PITA. Give a shout if that's what you decide to do. Hard facing isn't that hard to do and if you pick the correct rods it will not only be hard it'll be impact and deformation resistant. A couple passes of deformation resistant build up rod and it's not only not going to deform under years of sledgehammer work it's hard enough to crush rock. Pre-heat it before hard facing and grind with cup stones while it's still red from running fast hot stringer beads. Use graduated grits, start with as course as you can get, I have 60grit available at the local commercial hardware store. Once you have the face smoothed and cleaned up to the finest cup stones you can get switch out to disks and finally paper disks to finish. It'll cool as you grind so by time it's ready for sanding it should be cool enough it won't just burn them up. Remember to keep the stones and hard disks FLAT, if you use the edges or tip it you'll end up with a wide fuller and NO don't whip the grinder back and forth, that noise it makes is a motor. Seems everywhere you look people are stroking the disk grinder back and forth fast. This does NOTHING good it guarantees you won't have an even bevel or chamfer. Smooth slow passes are a GOOD technique it's easy to keep a slow stroke uniform, you can actually SEE what's happening before it's permanent. Experience hardfacing. . . Me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senator Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Thank you Frosty. Sounds like Hard Facing Alloy rods it is. Ill post up photos once I get somewhere with this. If done correctly this ASO will have as much mass as Thor's hammer. Respect, Senator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Select a rod for steel on stone applications, steel on steel is for wear resistance can spall and chip under impact. That isn't an ASO, it's an anvil embrio. (Anvilbrio?" Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senator Posted January 22, 2016 Author Share Posted January 22, 2016 I got the steel back to the shop and loaded onto a piano cart. I measured it and it is actually bigger than advertised. If I have done the math correctly Im looking at 791.7 pounds of A-36. I noticed that the flame cut notch is very rough, while the other end is a factory finish and really nice. Also, the finished end has a 2" bolt hole already cut into it that is 6-8 inches deep. The bolt hole is perfect for converting into a square hardy hole. I may flip it and work the other end and come up with some sort of very stout, little stand that can handle the notch. As it sits its 30 3/4 long, and I would like the working surface around 32 inches. My goal for tomorrow is to decide what end to use and then weld on feet and chain hooks on the sides so I can move it around easier. Frosty, as a way to control weld thickness and keep everything level as possible; I was thinking of welding on 3/8 S-7 or compatible rod in a # pattern on the face. The rod will allow me to keep it level when welding and grinding the same way they use a scree board. Does this sound like a good idea? Respect, Senator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Is that the orientation you want as the finished anvil? I'd stand it on edge for the greater depth of rebound. Or on end for a striking anvil. I hope you're not planning on trying to stretch it for an inch or so, WAY more trouble than it's worth. It took me a couple re-reads to realize you want to weld S-7 rod ON not use S7 welding rod. So I deleted THAT response. That's more trouble than it's worth and how strong are you? Off the shelf build up rod will stop a D8 dozer cold without a mark, what are YOU going to do to it with a hand hammer? Just run your beads and be consistent the exact deposition depth isn't important as long as it's consistent. Same current, same stand off, same speed, same flag pattern. Do NOT over-amp for a smoother bead, no higher amperage than the high side of the chart FOR the rod. About the only place maintaining depth is a little tricky is on the edges. A piece of copper bar chill plate takes care of any muffin topping on the edges. A piece of copper 1/2" thick say 1 1/2" wide or better and long enough to run a ways is all you need. Just clamp it to the side of the work and the weld puddle will STOP on contact. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senator Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 Thank you. I was not very clear in my second post. I am planning on flipping it on end and using it like a hoss striking block. Since the first post I've decided to use the notched end up and the big square end down. The plan from here is to use three sections of 1/2 plywood for the base raising the total height to 32 1/4. Thanks again for the advice. Its much appreciated. Senator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senator Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 I find myself making good progress with the anvil. Since my last post I had the anvil flame cut to shape and now am working on welding on a "buttering" layer of 7018 then two passes of Mackay Cobalt-6C for hardening. The Cobalt-6c was the only hard face rod I could get my hands on locally. I was doing some digging and found the Rockwell Hardness is projected around 45-48 for this electrode. I would like to try and get it a bit harder ( into the low 50's at least). Will the hard face crack if I heat it and use a skid loader to quench in a pond? It is currently sitting at 700 pounds. Thank you all for the collective advice so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRS Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I really don´t think you have to quench unless it is specifically asked for. If I had any saying I would ask you to grind down what you have done, tag some square bar to both long sides, start your welds there and cut them off later. you could even bevel the sides a bit before you tag the sacrificial bar to it since the corners are what takes the most stress. I would travel the short distance, place one bead half on the other not at random spots. Lay some square lines with soap stone to keep the welds square to the anvil. Keep it clean, preheat and go hotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 My Google Fu doesn't hit on anything I can read a spec for KcKay hard facing rods, it defaults out to Stoody or Hobart rods. That RC suggests to me it's a steel on stone alloy and is shock and deformation resistant and should do fine for an anvil face. NO do NOT quench it!! You want it impact and deformation resistant NOT hard and brittle. Preheating usually isn't necessary but if you do it's good, it should help prevent it from shrink checking on cooling. In anvil repairs I grind them smooth while they're still HOT. The hard facing is still sort of soft so a cup wheel will cut and remove it. The grinding also helps stress relieve the hard face and the build up beads. I don't know why you used 7018 as an underlayment, it's not significantly harder nor deformation resistant than most grades of mild steel. It's alloyed specifically to match mild and structural steels with a little better tensile and modulus of deformation. You can bend it a little farther and have it return. It's NOT a build up underlayment for hard facing. Don't sweat it it isn't going to hurt anything it just isn't going to be much if any help. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senator Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 Frosty, here is a picture of the rod I'm using. It's cobalt-6. I am told they use on rock crushers and mining equipment. I ran it a bit hotter and then grind while still hot. Works much better now. Thanks everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Used on rock crushers is the right stuff in general. I can't tell anything from what I see on the can but it's steel on stone so it should be good or at least won't check if laid down a little too thick. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I hope you got that rod for free: Grainger says that tube full is worth $1600. I could sell that on fleaBay and buy a herd of used anvils for that much money, or one really nice new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senator Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Hi John, The guy at the supply company didn't know what to charge for a 10 pound tube. I told him I was looking at $35.00 for 5 pounds off Amazon. (looking at china product) He then went to check with his boss who came back with " I dunno....$30.00 cash sound OK?" So yeah- I now have a unopened 10 pound tube for $30.00. If it brings $1600 at Grainger I can expect to get what - $300-$500 off Ebay? For that Ill just keep and use it. It was good thought. EDIT: I'd sell it in a hot second if I could get $1600 for it. :-) Respect, Senator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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