Seek Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Today I tried a bit of forge welding too. Just a test and nothing complicated. I bend over the last bit of some flat bar, smashed it flat and then welded it . First cleaned it, then heated it up in my charcoal fire. I used a bit of borax, heated more till yellow heat and tested with a pointed end of another piece of steel if it was sticky. Heated a little more and smashed it on the anvil. Repeated for good measure and then tried to pry it apart in the vise.Now I need a bit of help. Did this weld at all? What am I looking at? The nice gray areas, where they welded? Is it always possible to pry apart a forge weld? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panday Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Does not appear to have welded. No, you shouldn't be able to pry a weld apart. I'd suspect you burned your flux off. But you definitely have soot/scale in there, so there could be more going on. Edited October 12, 2015 by Panday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 nope they shouldnt come apart, how many times did you try to weld it, did you flux everytime? looks like it was to cold to me, but im not an expert on the subject, but thinner stock cools quicker so it might have been hot when you pulled it out, but not when you went to actualy hammer on it. just a guess though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Or as my first instructor in forge welding used to yell "Don't look at it *HIT* *IT*!".Of course hitting it too hard can cause a dry joint too. Firm not sharp blows are required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panday Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Nick and Thomas seem to be saying the same thing.Did you preheat your anvil? If you're welding thin stuff you can't rest it on the anvil face before you hit it. They have to happen simultaneously, and you have to pick the steel back up between strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 on thin stock your first blow is the welding blow; the rest are just refining the weld. Thin stock is harder to weld than thick stock in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seek Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Good to know I didn't succeed on the first try. But itwas fun to give it a go. Next month I am enlisted in a beginners course. hopefully there will be time for this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 My first weld took me a while to get worked out. if you are using gas there is even more things that can cause you issues.some help is a good idea. 1/2" stock is a pretty forgiving size for a first weld it will hold heat a little bit longer so you can get comfortable with the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seek Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 My first real goal is making some hinges for a couple of cabinets I want to make. So I really have to do more practice.About all the tips posted above: No I didn't think of any of these. So, thanks for summing them up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Heated a little more and smashed it on the anvil. Repeated for good measure and then tried to pry it apart in the vise.Flux is not glue, in fact you do not need flux to forge weld. The folks from UK do not use flux and make nice forge welds.Before you take the metal from the fire, do the dance so you KNOW where everything is and KNOW that everything is ready. You should be one step from the forge to the anvil. BUMP the two pieces of metal together on the anvil and put them back into the fire to reheat. Second time around BUMP the two pieces of metal, them lightly hit them with the hammer, and back into the fire to reheat just below the last temp. Third time out of the fire and onto the anvil and dress up the weld and blend the two pieces of stock to look line one. A forge weld is the mixing of the liquid metal from the two pieces of stock. Does NOT take a lot of hammer blow to mix liquids. Think Ox/Ac welding. The photos where you see all the sparks coming off the anvil and going to the 4 corners of the shop is all Hollywood (and your forge weld being thrown to the four corners of the shop).If all else fails, ask Mr. Lincoln, Mr. Hobart, or Mr. Miller for their blessing then put the metal into the fire and dress it up to hide the weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 I disagree: a forge weld is a solid state weld no liquid needed. May I commend to your attention "Solid Phase Welding of Metals" Tylecote.I know I confused things recently using the term "dry"; and I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 If all else fails, ask Mr. Lincoln, Mr. Hobart, or Mr. Miller for their blessing then put the metal into the fire and dress it up to hide the weld. I like your thinking. I still try forge welding on oddball pieces and mangle it every time. Think I'll just try this for now myself till I get it down with normal pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Good trick for small stuff and hard to deal with peices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 One thing that was hard for me at 1st was getting the piece hot enough to weld. I was just too afraid I'd burn the piece. The turning point was when I was told to leave it in until I just started to see sparks. Then I could get steel to weld no problem. Now I can read the steel better and tell when it's ready to weld, but I still use the spark trick when some one asks me to help them weld the 1st few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Hi Seek, find Mark Aspery on YouTube there is a video called "forge welding: scarfe-theory" have a try at the first weld he makes by folding the end of a piece of rod onto itself. 2 minutes into the video. that is a good starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I disagree: a forge weld is a solid state weld no liquid needed. May I commend to your attention "Solid Phase Welding of Metals" Tylecote.I know I confused things recently using the term "dry"; and I apologize. I meant to say that the surface of the metal was at or close to a liquid (or at least melting) state and only on the surface, not the entire bar. If I have this incorrect please correct me. Please provide what is actually happening to the surface(s) during the fire weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seek Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yes that video from Mark Aspery is very enlightening. I am going to give it another try, but have to wait for when I have time again. All the tips above give me plenty of things to experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I meant to say that the surface of the metal was at or close to a liquid (or at least melting) state and only on the surface, not the entire bar. If I have this incorrect please correct me. Please provide what is actually happening to the surface(s) during the fire weld.This was my understanding as well; hence the admonition not to hit too hard and squirt the liquefied surface metal out of the weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Don't squish out the magic weld glue !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Don't squish out the magic weld glue !!Yeah, that's one way to put it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I hope that's not to technical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I hope that's not to technical It's an industry term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I believe the same company that makes the magic smoke that makes electronics work make the weld glue. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnbutler Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I believe the same company that makes the magic smoke that makes electronics work make the weld glue. Ah, the magic smoke. Overclocking high school computers and watching it all fly away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Heh heh yup that's the stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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