ds99 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hey guys i got a couple questions but let me say i am new to "forge welding" i have done some heat treatment stuff making blades but now i wanna experiment with some pattern welding. So i have some 1080 and some 15n20 that i was going to use. As i have seen in videos and read i stacked them up and was going to stick weld them together so it will stay tight until i can weld it in the forge. Also i seen many people welding a piece of rebar on the end so you dont need tongs. So great i get out my stick welder (that i havent used in a while) and guess what it doesnt work! So now what do i do? I have read of some people tieing the billet together with steel wire. Ok so that solves one part but i can see how this process would be very hard if you have to use tongs. So how can i attach a "handle" to the billet is my question? I was thinking of taking one of the pieces on 1080 (since it is thicker) and in the middle of the stack and cutting it a inch or 2 longer then the rest of the stack so it sticks out a inch that maybe i can drill 2 holes in the spot that sticks out and i also have a real thick piece of mild steel (the type you would get in home depot). Drill the same 2 holes in that stuff and stick 2 bolts lockwashers and nuts so they would be atached and YAY! i got a handle! Well....the thought process works in my head but sometimes MY head is not the best place for "thought experiments" so i am wondering if any one has done this or something similar or even something better ANY and ALL advice would be greatly appreciated! wether its on my idea or if you got a better one! THANKS GUYS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Stupid forbidden again....Forbidden wins again 6 times running.Describe what the problem with the machine seems to be. Most are dead simple to repair. Edited September 1, 2015 by DSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Welcome aboard, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.So what didn't work stick welding the billet together? You couldn't get a handle bar stuck to it either? How much arc welding experience do you have? Seriously, arc welding a billet together for the forge is, for the most part a non issue, it doesn't even have to be a decent weld let alone good.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds99 Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 frosty..... no i dont know exactly whats wrong with it but i took the arc welder out to do it and it wont work just get a small humm.. when turn it on so i know its getting some power but it doesnt do anything besides that no spark or nothing cant get rod lit at all basicly if it wasnt for the humm to tell me some kind of power is going into it i would think the thing is unpluged just no juice what so ever......if it was working i could weld the stack and a handle on it no problem that aint the issue. so until i figure out what wrong with it ( my uncle would know what to do if it is fixable but i cant get him to come take a look at it for like a week) i am looking for another way to hold the billet togather until that first forge weld and to attach a handle to it by the way thanks for the welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 What type of stick machine do you have? Sounds like an older transformer machine and sounds like you have possibly lost one leg of the power supply. Easy way to check is to open up the cover and check voltage with a meter on either side of the on/ off switch. You should have 220-240v on each side checking hot to hot.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Okay, don't think I"m making fun of you, I've done this too many times to count. Was it grounded? Was ground clamp on clean steel? Sometimes laying a piece of work on a grounded steel table isn't good enough. I've taken to grounding the work directly whenever possible.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Like Frostys advice But I also clamp some copper wire with the earth helps keep an earth a bit better ( I think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Like Frostys advice But I also clamp some copper wire with the earth helps keep an earth a bit better ( I think).Good point copper is softer so it conforms and makes better physical contact for better electrical contact. I think you're right.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think you are umderestimating ds99. If the guy says his welder does not work it is not impossible that his welder does not work. He asks what should he do instead. I would try to drill holes at the ends of the billet and rivet. I would also try to use a longish bar, preferably of one of the materials in the billet, and include that in the riveting, Even nuts and bolts may work.Göte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickb Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Solved similar problem.I wanted to forge a short piece of 1095 steel but didn't have a suitable pair of tongs so I took a piece of 1/2 inch square bar about 18 inches long and flattened about 3 inches on one end. Then I punched 2 holes about 2 inches apart on the flattened end and a pair of matching holes in the work piece. Finally I riveted the handle to the work piece.When I was finished forging I cut the work off and cleaned up the handle so I could use it at another time.You may have to modify this a little because you will be working at much hotter temperatures.I suggest riveting instead of bolting the handle, More secure hold and you can easily tighten them up when they get loose.We have no power tools in the forge, hence punching instead of drilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think you are umderestimating ds99. If the guy says his welder does not work it is not impossible that his welder does not work.My point being many times these things are simple to fix. If your car has a flat, that doesn't mean you need to go rent a car to get to work. AC only transformers are dead simple. There isn't very much inside them to fail. The transformer almost never fails unless you dropped it ( even then I know a few that still worked even after a 10' fall) or you exceeded the duty cycle so much you turned the inside red hot. 1 check incoming power. I don't know how many times guys tell me they wired it "right" only to find out after exhaustive trouble shooting that the hooked the ground up to one of the hot prongs on the plug/outlet. If you have power coming in from the wall, the next point of failure is either the cord, or the on/off switch. Checking voltage there on both sides eliminates that possibility. After that it's either the taps, or the leads probably. In an AC/DC unit, add in blown rectifier diodes. Other than that it's usually some sort of "operator error" like a bad ground, or you simply didn't hook up one of the leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I agree, that time spent "fixing" an essential tool, like a Welder, ... is better spent, than time "wasted" looking for a "work around".And further agree, that an AC "Buzz Box" is so dead simple to troubleshoot, that there's no reason not to just deal with it ..... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Not knowing myself how to do a modern weld but able to do a forge weld. Myself if not going the bolt it together route would probly just forge weld a handle to the larger piece of tool steel, clean it up as necessary, then forge weld the whole thing together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 just use tongs to hold the billet, like many of us do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Buzz box aside...(and I would be fiddling with it like crazy), why not make some tongs? It'll take you what, an hour tops (or less depending on skill level) for a new pair, or about 5-10 minutes to modify an old pair, and you'll use em again anyways.Best way to get 6 opinions is to ask 2 blackmsiths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 We weren't trying to make anybody feel dumb some things are easy to overlook and easy to correct. When I was called out on a wrecker call to retrieve a vehicle that "broke down" or wouldn't start it was routine to ask if it had gas. The gas gauge was the FIRST thing we checked and always had a couple 5 gl. cans on the truck. More often than not they were out of gas.It happens to everybody, you should've seen the look on my face when the shop mechanic flipped the fuel switch to the tank that was full.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds99 Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hey guys thanks for the input.....i dont take offence to any of it dont worry about that.....i havent fiddled with it yet my father is in hospital so i really aint worried about the arc welder to much. however tomorow i am going to mess with it for a while i have some free time and at least it will get my mind off things. ill deffinitly look over every ones advice before i try to do some things tomorow thanks again every one ill let ya know what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 We weren't trying to make anybody feel dumb some things are easy to overlook and easy to correct. When I was called out on a wrecker call to retrieve a vehicle that "broke down" or wouldn't start it was routine to ask if it had gas. The gas gauge was the FIRST thing we checked and always had a couple 5 gl. cans on the truck. More often than not they were out of gas.It happens to everybody, you should've seen the look on my face when the shop mechanic flipped the fuel switch to the tank that was full.Frosty The Lucky.Frosty, you WOULD have to bring that up. My daughter, in high school at the time, called and said her car wouldn't start. Tried pushing, no joy. I called a wrecker, they towed it to the shade tree mechanic we were using. Mechanic called....Mr. xxxx, your daughter's car was out of gas. Wish that driver would have checked the gas for her, but then he would have missed out on a towing charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Frosty, you WOULD have to bring that up. My daughter, in high school at the time, called and said her car wouldn't start. Tried pushing, no joy. I called a wrecker, they towed it to the shade tree mechanic we were using. Mechanic called....Mr. xxxx, your daughter's car was out of gas. Wish that driver would have checked the gas for her, but then he would have missed out on a towing charge.The station owner with the wrecker kept telling me not to carry gas on the truck! Thank you for reminding me of just what a crummy wrecker drive I was. He insisted there should NEVER be gas on the wrecker or service truck unless called specifically for gas so we could put the expensive gas in the cans.I used to have customers stop by and give me some darned nice Christmas gifts though. Funny those same customers followed me to the new station when I got fired. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Frosty, you're just an exceptional person, what can I say? At least you didn't leave them stranded (or towed for $$). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hey guys thanks for the input.....i dont take offence to any of it dont worry about that.....i havent fiddled with it yet my father is in hospital so i really aint worried about the arc welder to much. however tomorow i am going to mess with it for a while i have some free time and at least it will get my mind off things. ill deffinitly look over every ones advice before i try to do some things tomorow thanks again every one ill let ya know what happensPrayers sent up for your father, you and your family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hey guys thanks for the input.....i dont take offence to any of it dont worry about that.....i havent fiddled with it yet my father is in hospital so i really aint worried about the arc welder to much. however tomorow i am going to mess with it for a while i have some free time and at least it will get my mind off things. ill deffinitly look over every ones advice before i try to do some things tomorow thanks again every one ill let ya know what happensPrayers for your Father and family sent from the far north too. I don't know how I missed it in your last post, too intent on sillyness I guess.Humbly yours, Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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