The Armourer Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Alright, I have a question. I made a terrible side draft forge and used it to make a lot of stuff actually, but I really need a forge with airflow from below, so, the Brake Drum forge. I recieved both rotors and drums for free and was wondering which makes a better charcoal forge? Opinions, Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Alright, I have a question. I made a terrible side draft forge and used it to make a lot of stuff actually, but I really need a forge with airflow from below, so, the Brake Drum forge. I recieved both rotors and drums for free and was wondering which makes a better charcoal forge? Opinions, Ideas? Hi Armourer. I'm posting some photos of how my forge is set up. It's made of two brake drums bolted together back to back. The smaller drum on the bottom makes a stable base and provides ductwork. When I set all this up two years ago I didn't own a welder. I had one goal, to start forging, and one obsticle, make it happen with bolt together parts. The big drum on top is 12" across. I cut slots in the sides so I could get longer length work deeper in the fire. I burned wood charcoal in this fire pot for about three months and was able to forge weld just fine. Nothing fancy, but basic welding and forging was no problem. Since then I've switched to burning coal and coke, mostly coke, and I've burned over three thousand lbs of coke in that fire pot. I'm on the bottom half of my second ton of coke in the past two years. You can see the cracks in the bottom but it's still going strong and I'm going to keep forging in it till the bottom falls out. I may purchase a "propper" forge when that day comes and I may go back to the scrapyard and pick up another brake drum. I didn't let not being able to afford the best equipment stop me and noone else should! Lots of people online say you cant forge on a cheep, soft, cast iron anvil. Not true! If the steel is hot and you dont mind standing up to the anvil snobs you can make beutiful things with a brake drum and a cast iron anvil. When I decided I wanted a guilotine fuller I made one out of stuff already laying about ( still sans welder) My first hammer came from harbor freight and after doming one face I forged with it for a year. If I do decide to build my next forge at the scrap yard I will use a smaller brake drum because of burning coke. If charcoal was my only fuel I would say the bigger the fire pot the better. If there is any chance you will switch fuel I would use whichever vesel thats closest to the size of a grapefruit. I hope the pictures give you some ideas and look forward to seeing what you build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Hi Twisted Customs, I was looking for the 55 forge on site, and came across this post. I made a very similar forge that consists of a brake drum with steel piping under it for the ash collection, and air flow, which sits on cinder blocks. I felt that I needed something over my foge to keep in heat, and get rid of the smoke as well. I cam across this and loved how you made a cover for it, and i was wondering what you used to make it? Also I didn't know I could get charcoal up to forge weld temperatures, as I might switch from anthracite to that.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Hi Forging Carver. The hood is (i think) around 18 guage steel i just cut and bent. The top is a thin peice of diamond plat. It all stacks together and I remove it often once my coke is burning good. I mainly use it to tame the flames when I first light a fire. I use pine knots to start my fires and when you shoot the air to the pine lighter you get big flames jumping up. Two years worth of fires in that spot about 10" from a wood frame and OSB wall. The wall gets warm to the touch but so far so good. As to weld temp, I'm no expert but it's my understanding that the fuel doesnt matter, fire is fire. The air flow is what accelerates combustion. If you feed fuel fast enough you should be able to burn paper or anything and reach weld temp, some fuels just burn up faster than others. I cant articulate the science involved but I can tell you that using charcoal I was able to turn steel into sparklers and even burned some 5/8" stock in half, as in dripping when I pulled it out of the fire! Way too hot! I would guess that if you're not getting hot enough you just need to increse the air flow and be prepared to burn through fuel faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Ok thanks. So once the fire is lit, you dont use the hood anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 There is a caveat to that; if your air exceeds the maximum amount of "burn" your forge can acheive then the excess is actually cooling the fire. Why you can blow out a match when a softer exhale will just make it burn faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Ok thanks. So once the fire is lit, you dont use the hood anymore? I leave the hood in place if I'm working on small stuff but I have the option of lifting it off with tongs after the coke is lit and the fire settles down so I can heat the center section of longer stock. There is a caveat to that; if your air exceeds the maximum amount of "burn" your forge can acheive then the excess is actually cooling the fire. Why you can blow out a match when a softer exhale will just make it burn faster.The max output on my little squirrel cage fan wont reach that volume with the fuels I've used, coal, coke, charcoal, hardwood. The only real difference I've seen is the consumption rate, hardwood burns up the fastest and coke gives me the longest burn time by volume. I haven't played with different fans because the first one I hooked up was able to produce forging and welding temps with all those fuels. Im guessing it would take a pretty stiff breeeze to blow out a coak fire but I do live in Tornado Ally ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I leave the hood in place if I'm working on small stuff but I have the option of lifting it off with tongs after the coke is lit and the fire settles down so I can heat the center section of longer stock.The max output on my little squirrel cage fan wont reach that volume with the fuels I've used, coal, coke, charcoal, hardwood. The only real difference I've seen is the consumption rate, hardwood burns up the fastest and coke gives me the longest burn time by volume. I haven't played with different fans because the first one I hooked up was able to produce forging and welding temps with all those fuels. Im guessing it would take a pretty stiff breeeze to blow out a coak fire but I do live in Tornado Ally ;-)So does the hood act as a flue and take away the smoke?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Armourer Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Currently I have been playing around with the idea of a brake rotor in a brake drum? I found one that fits perfectly, nice and snug and the downward pipe is extends without a gap, together 55 pounds, I kinda like the weight lol, could stand some heat! Or what do you guys think, bad idea, a waste of brakes? Unnecessary? Edited August 18, 2015 by The Armourer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 So does the hood act as a flue and take away the smoke?Thanks The hood doesnt draw because it doesnt go anywhere. I have a big shop fan hanging from the rafters pointed at the forge. I run the fan when I first light it to carry out the wood smoke. Once the lighter burns off there is little to no smoke frome the coke so I can kill the fan in winter.Thanks. Currently I have been playing around with the idea of a brake rotor in a brake drum? I found one that fits perfectly, nice and snug and the downward pipe is extends without a gap, together 55 pounds, I kinda like the weight lol, could stand some heat! Or what do you guys think, bad idea, a waste of brakes? Unnecessary?It wont be a waste if it works! If you can nest the two together to get the size firepot you want and the ducting works go for it. It cant hurt to beef it up. One advantage to not welding anything together is that after burning a pot of fuel you can rearange things easily if you decide to modify the design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I would recomend reading about "side blast forge" simple to build and charcoal is easer to manage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Twisted , I use a brake disc set into a brake drum as my forge .The disc is the consumable part , when it burns out ( & it will after awhile ) just lift it out , drop in another disc & your ready to go again Dale Russell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Armourer Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I would recomend reading about "side blast forge" simple to build and charcoal is easer to manageI have been using a side draft forge this summer, but I think I would prefer one vented from below. Mine got hot enough to melt horseshoes in half unfortunately, and I could easily work truck axles in it, but I don't think it fits my forging "style" if you know what I mean, like, how I like to forge and adjust things, but I will see once my brake drum forge is done, once I get back from vacation. If I don't like it I will go back to my side draft forge. He means to say side BLAST forge. Side draft usually refers to the chimney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Can't get a proper reply going. Will try again tomorrow. Forbidden bug is getting me. What at is it that you dislike about the side blast? I've built both styles in the past but favour the side blast as the clinker collects below the air inlet. Andy Edited August 19, 2015 by Everything Mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Armourer Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I just had difficulty getting a good even heat, it would get hot but I suppose my design was somwehat flawed as I wasn't getting as large a heat as I wanted in somw cases, as in heating up whole railroad spikes, but it wasn't bad, my main problem was that my current side forge has to be rebuilt every time. I think I would find it easier to work long stock in a brake drum forge as opposed to my design, as in, heating up longer peices, like rebar and springs. Mine is similar to, but a MUCH heavier duty version of the basic one shown by Sparrow Forge? I believe it's called? I can make rr spike knifes and stuff no problem, but I think a bottom draft? forge is what I want as a semi permanent mobile forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Blast and draft can be confusing. Blast referes to the input of air - draft is the extraction of air. So a side DRAFT forge is one with a chimney set to one side of the fire. What you have just now is a side BLAST, and you're after a bottom BLAST. You can replace the word blast with "blown" too. A bit pedantic but a lot of folks get confused. I see what you are saying. You might need to pile more fuel up around the air inlet to get a longer heat. You can get a really big fire going in the full size British water cooled forges. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Agreed, sounds like the fuel pile wasn't big enough for the job.My factory vintage Champion forge is pretty shallow. The whole depth is just over 1" or so. Brake rotors are better than drums in my opinion. If you need a deeper fire, pile more fuel on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Armourer Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) I see what you guys are saying, thanks. Edited August 19, 2015 by The Armourer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Charcoal has its own particulars. Two much air will cool it, blow sparcks (fire fleas) and even blow embers out of the forge. A 3/4-1" tuyeer (used cince antiquity) heats about 6" if you want a biger heat zone you need multipe tuyeer. This is the idea behind the pipe with multiple holes under the coal in the Tim Lively washtub forge. So if you need a 12" heat zone two 1" tuyeer 6" apart is the answeer. As I can only forge about 6" at a time I don't wast fuel trying to build big fires. But if i need one, a hand trowl, and a few pipe fitings and I can have an 18" long by 6" wide fire in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Charcoal has its own particulars. Two much air will cool it, blow sparcks (fire fleas) and even blow embers out of the forge. A 3/4-1" tuyeer (used cince antiquity) heats about 6" if you want a biger heat zone you need multipe tuyeer. This is the idea behind the pipe with multiple holes under the coal in the Tim Lively washtub forge. So if you need a 12" heat zone two 1" tuyeer 6" apart is the answeer. As I can only forge about 6" at a time I don't wast fuel trying to build big fires. But if i need one, a hand trowl, and a few pipe fitings and I can have an 18" long by 6" wide fire in no timeCharles, I love your practical, no nonsense approach to most problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Thankyou but I'm just lazy, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelonastick Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Sometimes being as efficient as possible can be mistaken for "being lazy"At least, that's what I tell my boss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 My charcoal forge predated the lively one by a decade + ; but had a lot of the same features. I ran the tuyere out the end of the forge away from the air input and made a "ramrod" that I could adjust to get the length of active tuyere I needed for the project. (and yes I originally designed it to be able to heat treat large blades. A variation I have seen on it has a round bowl for general forging with the long linear trough forge radiating out from it, the tuyere in the bowl section has air holes down the side as well as the top section.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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