Michael Cochran Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I desperately need to make some better tongs and wondered what types some here might suggest. Currently I have a couple I made that are flat jaws and I have a few I bought that are bolt head tongs. I like the bolt head but cannot make them right. Flat jaws are great for smaller flat projects but I have a hard time holding anything about 3/8" or larger with them. I'm thinking about trying some box jaws and would like to try offset flat jaws for bladesmithing.i know asking for tong suggestions without telling you what I'm planning on using them for is a little too vague but honestly I'm looking for some good general purpose designs. Also suggested starting stock size would be great since I'm plannin a trip to a supplier soon. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Practice, practice, practice... and before you know it they start turning out pretty sharp. There is a Pdf book on I forge that has a chart with all the recommended dimensions for any given stock size. What I have found helpful is draw them out to scale on a piece of paper and try your darnedest to get them spot on. And then it all kinda falls into place after that. If you can manage to get something your half way happy with it only takes a minute to size to whatever stock your using. The first pic is of a few unfinished tongs I had started on. the second pic is some miscellaneous tongs and nippers I had acquired a while back. The large tongs with the broken handle is sized for 1" or slightly better material. Most of my tongs have been made from 3/4 rnd, but I picked up a pretty good bundle cheap. I would recommend 3/8x1" flat bar or even 1/2 x 1" makes for nice stock to make bolt tongs with. As well as twist tongs. The giant pick up tongs started out as 2' of 3/8x1" they are for a buddies father-in-law's fire pit. Hope that gives you a few ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 checking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Don't feel like you "have" to make tongs. If you don't have the experience/skills to reliably make a pair that are working great, buy brand new tongs from a company like Quick-n-Dirty Tool Co. You get a pair of tongs that are dead on the money, professionally made, and you support a small business. For the $30 they charge, you really can't go wrong.Folks forget that tongs are a critical part of the operation and can really make or break the smithing experience. Bad tongs are a liability, not only do they cause fatigue in the smith, but they actually make smithing more difficult and dangerous. Every smith has stories about hot metal slipping out of a pair of tongs that weren't right for the job....I don't hold to the notion that tongs are a great learning experience for a guy that's new to the trade. At best, it's always been a Journeyman-level project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I use ViseGrips for some items, they don't slip while you are working the stock. I have also used Channel locks. Even though I probably have 3 dozen tongs, sometimes the pliers work the best. Pictures of old shops show racks full of tongs, so I don't think there is. really a universal tong out there. Vaughn, on one Facebook page for blacksmithing they are always pushing tongs as a beginner project. I suggest basic items that require tapering, drawing out, squaring up, rounding, and basic bends to learn hammer control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Right on all counts: Dog, Vaughn and Guns. Tongs are NOT a first or even second project but I think they're a step to Journeyman level work. They're a perfect example of how a "complex" project is a series of basic techniques, done correctly in proper order. That fits MY definition of a good basic skills level project and tongs are necessary tools. win win.There's a technique for estimating stock I haven't seen mentioned by anyone but me. Weigh the finished product you wish to duplicate and add a little for scale loss and trimming. Subtract the weight of the rivet if you want to get picky but tongs aren't a very picky project. You can make a simple and accurate beam balance with a yard stick wire and tacks if you don't have a "real" scale that measures to ounces.Frosty The Lucky. Edited June 20, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I will really have to try and remember that next time I'm trying to make a copy of something Frosty. Such a simple and basic thing but so easily overlooked. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I will really have to try and remember that next time I'm trying to make a copy of something Frosty. Such a simple and basic thing but so easily overlooked. Thanks My pleasure. I clearly remember the head slapper moment when I thought of it. Father gave me an old piece he wanted a couple copies of. A drive point with a punched hole and a ring, a tie down or hitching thing I think. He wanted them matched pretty closely and I was standing there bouncing it in my hand trying to get a FEEL for it's weight when I noticed the scale on his table. Sometimes revelations leave you literally agape and agog so there I was bouncing the drive ring thing in my hand staring at his bench speechless and unmoving. Dad finally asked me what was wrong and I just set the thing on his scale and you could see the light come on writ large on Dad's face.Of course Dad being Dad would never admitted it wasn't an old trick he knew all along but that was Dad for you. I never asked him why he was standing there with calipers, a pad of paper and pencil intending to calculate the stock quantity the hard way.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I like to explain to my students that Fabrication is an additive process, Machining is a reduction process, and arc welding is either Constant Current or Constant Voltage, but blacksmithing is Constant Volume. We are re-arranging a certain volume of metal to a new form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I like to explain to my students that Fabrication is an additive process, Machining is a reduction process, and arc welding is either Constant Current or Constant Voltage, but blacksmithing is Constant Volume. We are re-arranging a certain volume of metal to a new form.Well said John.I put welding in the additive category though and Fab can be additive or subtractive but in general it's additive. Minor nits to pick, I am in agreement in general and certainly wouldn't argue in front of students.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. I have heard both that they are good beginners projects and they are more intermediate. So far it seems to be less beginner to me. Frosty, thanks for the suggestion of weighin something I already have, I wouldn't have thought about that.i have looked on here for tong articles and such but didn't see much. I'm doin some more digging around looking now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Brian Brazeal has a how to video though I don't know the URL.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I've watched several tong makin videos, honestly half the time I go to YouTube I end up watchin at least one. My biggest question was what kinds of tongs people use most.i have found that Google didn't show me half the tong related posts on here. It showed a handful of results but looking here ive found a few it didn't mention.i found out today that the closets steel supplier isn't open on the weekend Dogs, I still haven't found the pdf you're referring to but I haven't given up my search just yet. Edited June 20, 2015 by M Cochran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ah, what type you use the most often! I remember now. . . Uh, the ones that fit best? I wish I knew, I have a few go to pairs and I've gotten over being embarrassed but the slip joint pliers with round stock welded to the handles for reins they're darned useful. I use the V bit bolt tongs a LOT same for the round bit bolt tongs. The flats and the 3/4" strap (bar?) stock tongs. The pickup tongs are really handy too. What I do most is work long stock so I don't need tongs.Metalmangler, now there's a different story, he's so good at making tongs he just makes the pair he needs rather than look for them. No fooling the back wall of his shop is covered from floor to as high as you can reach about 4 deep in tongs. I don't know about the past but he uses 4140 for tongs now.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Frosty Maybe it would be an idea to ask metalmangler to make a tongs forging video?Perhaps a whole new section to the site of How To Videos?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 I tried replying earlier and it said my access was forbidden lol.i have tried to use slip joint and channel lock pliers with marginal success. I never put longer handles on them since I mostly just use them for straightening unwanted twists. Thanks for the suggestions, Frosty. I'm goin around the world looking for some more videos and picture tutorials for different styles.I piddled a little bit in the shop and burned the last of my coal and don't have anythin to show for it. Well that's a little bit of a stretch I had some very basic blanks forged out until my phone rang and I made a stupid move. I ended up burnin off the bit end of one so im gonna step back and rethink what I'm doin see where all im messin up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Frosty Maybe it would be an idea to ask metalmangler to make a tongs forging video?Perhaps a whole new section to the site of How To Videos?? If Deb will let me use her Go Pro and I can catch Mark making a set I'll see what I can do. Up to him of course but he's pretty easy going. In truth he does it basically just like anybody else who's good at it. Turn the stock left for a right handed user or turn it right for the lefty. Probably the hardest thing for me to learn is isolating the right amount for the bits I want. That takes practice, notes or not.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 TorBjorn Ahman tong video is a good one,you my have see it already.I like vee bit tongs hold both square and round stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Stan, I actually just watched it last night but I'm gonna watch it again at least once more. I liked the way he done his video and I think I might be able to do some of what he shows if I watch a few more times. Maybe I'll get lucky and pull off a decent set. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I made the set second from the left after watching his video about 5 times, drawing out the reins took a bit with no power hammer thought.I tried to post yesterday on this topic but was not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 if you put James Cran in the search bar there is a 1910 book that has the tong dimension chart in it. It's not letting me load it right now but it's well worth a good look though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Stan, those tongs look much much better than any I've made to date but ill get there.dogs, I found the post you're referring to. I'm gonna have me some more readin to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 cool, if you need even more reading on many and diverse topics http://www.survivorlibrary.com/?page_id=1389 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Talking of stock volumes that reminded me of this pictureThat demonstrates how volume can be manipulated pretty well I think. Sadly I forget who the smith was. Tongs arent easy at all. It's nice to use a pair you've made though. V bit tongs are certainly the most versatile. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Frosty I use weight also for stock determination. I really like the weight calculator on this site http://www.onlinemetals.com/calculator.cfm . I have a little Excel file I created now so I can estimate the amount needed of a given dimension for a given weight.Joey Van der Steeg also has good videos out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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