AR. Hillbilly Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I just tore an old tractor transmisson apart for parts and ended up with four 5/8" by 9" long shift rails. I stuck one in a vice and got after it with a hack saw. It wouldn't hardly scratch it. I'm looking for ideas to use these? I also have a 1 3/4" shaft 17 inches long I hope to make hammers from someday. How can I tell what kind of steel it's made of. Making tools is my biggest interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Learn about spark testing metal. That will tell you a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The other trick is progressive quenching. Forge out some test pieces and prepare some different quenching media, air (hopefully you got plenty of that...;-) oil, salt water, and plain old water. Check to see which one gives you the best hardening. For air hardening steels you can prop them up so that air can get to them, if you chuck it in the vice the vice will quench at a faster rate. For quenching in liquids an up and down stroke with a figure 8 swirl works well. Don't want steam pockets causing irregularities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 such shafting may be case hardened. I'd forge a section down to about 1/8" thick and then heat to non magnetic and quench the end in water and try to break it with a hammer WEARING PPE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR. Hillbilly Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Will Do Thomas. One of the shift rails has several detents in it and I'll start with it and do as you say. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR. Hillbilly Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 The other trick is progressive quenching. Forge out some test pieces and prepare some different quenching media, air (hopefully you got plenty of that...;-) oil, salt water, and plain old water. Check to see which one gives you the best hardening. For air hardening steels you can prop them up so that air can get to them, if you chuck it in the vice the vice will quench at a faster rate. For quenching in liquids an up and down stroke with a figure 8 swirl works well. Don't want steam pockets causing irregularities...I'll give that a try. I'd like to know what oil to start with and what temp should the oil/water be at. I just keep a bucket of water near the anvil at room/shop temp right now. I haven't used oil yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR. Hillbilly Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Learn about spark testing metal. That will tell you a lotFrancis I want/need to learn how to spark test. I've read and watched videos but I can't see the videos good enough to see what's going on. I have some 5/8" mild steel I'll grind and then grind on one of these and take note of the difference. I come across an abundance of old tractor parts so I need to learn this stuff. I know I won't learn everything over night but my hope is to learn something every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'll give that a try. I'd like to know what oil to start with and what temp should the oil/water be at. I just keep a bucket of water near the anvil at room/shop temp right now. I haven't used oil yet.Good Morning,The fact is, you have unknown material. With that in mind, what the polite people above are trying to do is, suggest that YOU have to figure out what works and what doesn't. There is no ONE answer.The reason people purchase the proper steel for tools, is they don't like surprises when things shatter.The fact is, doing what you are doing, you are on your own.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) AR, for oils you can use peanut oil, old cooking oil (restaurants might give you some), which are safer and cleaner. some use motor oil but it can be a mess, etc. The non-oil quenches are many, water, brine, air. As suggested, try them all. Search this site for quench liquids. Edited June 9, 2015 by arkie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony San Miguel Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If making tools is your biggest interest coil springs for punches, chisels and slitters make good stock and king pins make good hammer stock. I've collected plenty of both for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Automotive and machine parts vary wildly, even by the same brand. Otherwise, what they said.Whereabouts in Arkansas, Ft. Smith? Fayetville? (go Ouachita Tigers.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR. Hillbilly Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Nobody I live west of Eureka Springs on the White river near Beaver lake. Go Hogs. I worked in Marietta Georgia in the late 90's.Guys I heated a couple of the shift rails tonight and tapered them. I quenched one in water and the other in motor oil. Both would bend like mild steel just like Thomas said. They went in a scrap bucket for later use but not for tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR. Hillbilly Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Good Morning,The fact is, you have unknown material. With that in mind, what the polite people above are trying to do is, suggest that YOU have to figure out what works and what doesn't. There is no ONE answer.The reason people purchase the proper steel for tools, is they don't like surprises when things shatter.The fact is, doing what you are doing, you are on your own.NeilAdvice taken and appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Guys I heated a couple of the shift rails tonight and tapered them. I quenched one in water and the other in motor oil. Both would bend like mild steel just like Thomas said. They went in a scrap bucket for later use but not for tools.Did you make sure it was hot enoigh before you quenched it? I had some known steel that didn't harden the other day because I messed up and pulled it out of the fire just a little too soon and didn't double check my temp before i quenched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 You don't think OBU has a chance of beating them this year? Been in Eureka Springs many times, and used to canoe the Current River up that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR. Hillbilly Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Did you make sure it was hot enoigh before you quenched it? I had some known steel that didn't harden the other day because I messed up and pulled it out of the fire just a little too soon and didn't double check my temp before i quenched.Did you make sure it was hot enoigh before you quenched it? I had some known steel that didn't harden the other day because I messed up and pulled it out of the fire just a little too soon and didn't double check my temp before i quenched.That could be. I did grind on them some while I was waiting on the fire to get hot. The shift rails seemed to be more of a yellowish color and much more sparklie. I ground on a piece of 3/8" mild steel and it seemed a more orange color and darker and less sparklie. I didn't grind hard or deep so possibly the case hardening could have caused the difference. I'm sure both pieces were well over 400 deg when I quenched them. I took them to a dull red and let them cool just a bit before I quenched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 AR, use a magnet to determine if you have reached critical temperature. If the magnet won't stick, quench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Nope way too cold; they need to be around 1450-1650 degF to harden appropriately (depending on alloy and based on the chart in ASM Metals Handbook, Desk Edition) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I keep a big strong magnet from an old cb antenna mount right by the forge just for that reason. I usually check it on the magnet and put it back in the fire for a couple seconds before quenching, unless it stuck to the magnet in which case I leave it a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WL smith Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Just make your punches and chisels and heat treat them in oil. Experience is a great teacher. This is how we all learn on unknown steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Guys I heated a couple of the shift rails tonight and tapered them. I quenched one in water and the other in motor oil. Both would bend like mild steel just like Thomas said. They went in a scrap bucket for later use but not for tools.Welcome to the real world, you did something wrong and something right. You heat Treated it wrong and you haven't quite learned what or why yet. But you are starting the Learning.Take little steps, Grass Hopper!!Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Jones Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hmm. King pins I have 7 or so. Picked up a tiebar ( the rod that connects to the track rod ends on the axle is this what you mean by axle?Sorry for jumping in just thought this was a good place to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR. Hillbilly Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Welcome to the real world, you did something wrong and something right. You heat Treated it wrong and you haven't quite learned what or why yet. But you are starting the Learning.Take little steps, Grass Hopper!!NeilI agree 100%. You guys are a great help. Sorry for the dumb questions but I really want to learn about the hardening process and different types of steel. I don't want to buy expensive steel just yet until I get some more experience. So far all I'm doing is learning steps and most everything I do is practice. I appreciate all the help very much. I hope to some day have the experience to help others as y'all have been helpin me. Thanks. Can I re-heat the pieces I already tapered or should I use the others I haven't heated yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Reuse the pieces you already have. There's no need in redoing what you've done to get to this point. Just reheat nice and hot. Just make sure you don't use one of those soft magnets when you check to see if it's hot enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) You can cycle most steels numerous times with no issues. Some alloys you should normalize between runs. remember only the area you have thinned down to test need to get up to austentizing temperature before quenching. Edited June 11, 2015 by ThomasPowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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