Fire crane pintles

[Ridgewayforge]

Hello all, 

I received a request from a friend to forge for him a fireplace crane for his kitchen hearth. I know that I will be using 1"x1/2" hot rolled steel for the upright and the arm, and probable a diagonal support made from 1/2" square. 

For the pintles, I have done some research, and it looks like most of the fireplace cranes have tennoned tops and bottoms which are inserted into forged holes in an anchor. I was wondering what the feasability is of forging holes in the top and bottom of the crane and then forging some pintles to anchor into the wall, making the whole crane removable. 

This will be a used crane to hang dutch ovens and other pots over an open fire. 

 

Also, is it better to attach the anchor points through the brick itself or through the mortar between the bricks? 

Thank you, 

Ridgewayforge

[Charles R. Stevens]

Most of the ones ive seen are forged from one peice of stock, as it saves 2 welds. Lets see if I can describe this. Take a peice of wide stock and lay out as illistrated, do knock back the corners as you open it up or you will be firghting them later. Heat and unfold the outer two to 45 degrees, heat and unfold the iner one to 90 degrees, now after forging to clean up the to at 90 degrees give them a x+1/2 twist, this brings them in line so you can forge out the diaginals to forge one lap weld. 

If you make the to tennon long and the botom on short, and leave space between the pintles you can lift up on the crain, slip the bottom tennon out and then slide the crain down out of the top pintle (leave a bit of slop in the top). Thats how it was done in the past.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2015 by Charles R. Stevens

[Charles R. Stevens]

[ThomasPowers]

Some very nice ones in "Iron and Brass Implements of the English House"

But yes it is allowable to make it a lift off version.  

As most of them were made with real wrought iron I don't recall anybody trying to avoid welds and some of the ornate ones had a veritable plethora of them. Of course I have not seen very many "modern" ones as compared to several hundred historic ones so the change in materials in the late 1800's very well could change the way they tended to be made. (Does the foxfire books have an example? my copy is about 200 miles north right now.)

How will you fasten in the pintles?  that may have a bearing on what they are put into.

[Judson Yaggy]

I've made a few and seen a lot more in old houses and antique stores in the "old" part of the USA.  Every antique one i've ever seen has been forge welded out of multiple pieces.  Forge welding was the mig welder of yesteryear, quick easy and no big deal.  

Mounting was with pintles usually with pins integral to the pintle, but sometimes the pintles had holes so a rivet or tennon on the crane assembly could pass thru the pintle.  

If retrofitting into an existing fireplace drill into the mortar joint not the brick.

 

[Judson Yaggy]

Detail of a crane from the Shelburne Museum, a large crane about 4 feel long.

[Dan P.]

I have never seen a kitchen crane that has been forged from one piece. It makes no sense to me to make it that way. The fire welds would take a fraction of the time of doing all that cutting (starting with an unusaually large piece of steel), and also I would not trust 99% of wrought iron not to tear at the junction of the branch.

[Dan P.]

Concerning the pintles, I might consider mounting one of the journals in the floor to bear the weight, and I think Charles' suggestion of leaving the pintles long enough (or short enough) so you can take it out (and put it in) is a good one. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

As I'm a westerner, I havent seen a lot of wraught. The ones I have seen were made this way ;might have been made by the same smith for all I know) i fully relize that the fiberus nature or wraught dosnt lend itself to this technich. 

[Ridgewayforge]

I am pushing for the client to install the pintles into the mortar joints. Is it better for the mounting pintles to be the male or the female end of the crane? That is where I am stuck.  I see that most of them have the crane itself being the male ends and then are inserted into the female pintles, but I am thinking of doing it like an old barn gate, with the crane being the barn door and the pintles being like the old style pintles. Is this even feasable? 

[ThomasPowers]

Yes it's feasible.  No big deal, do it!

[Frosty]

Installing into the mortal in the brick walls is by far the easiest to do and easiest to repair if they decide to remove the crane. Simply drill into the mortar with a masonry bit and chisel it out so the tangs insert. Then use a quick set anchor cement and it's a done deal. To remove them use a torch to heat the pintles and give them a tap, the anchor cement will crumble. Clean the holes and patch with thin set and after the first fire it'll be invisible.

Frosty The Lucky.