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Hello from Ireland (for now)


Fafnir

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Hello,

I just wanted to introduce myself and to ask question. My name is Jacob and really want to get into blacksmithing. I'm from Poland, currently living in Ireland and I have no space to set up a workshop. I'm going to buy a VAN and slowly turn it into a mobile workshop or at least storage for tools I could deploy somewhere and lit a fire.

I know it is going to take MANY years until I'll be able to earn living from blacksmithing. Until then I need a job. Currently I work at a fast-food restaurant and for some reason :ph34r: I don't like it. I would rather work in anything related to shaping steel. I'm thinking about moving to Cork (where factories are), but honestly I have no clue what kind of a job could I get with no experience.

So, my question is:

What kind of job can I do with no experience that is at least loosely related to blacksmithing? Money is not a problem, it can only go up from my current wage.

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Pushing a broom and cleaning up will get you in the door. From there you can watch and learn.

You need to look for the type of work, business, factory, etc that you are interesting in.

There is at least one other lad learning blacksmithing that is a member of IFI. May want to contact him and exchange notes. 

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Welcome aboard Jacob, glad to have you. That's a tough question for anybody but you to answer. We've all answered it for ourselves to one degree or another. There are those things we've wanted to do since we were children and then there's the reality of having to support ourselves. Some folk just go for their dreams and forsake the rest, very few make it, the wreckage of the ones who don't is all around us. Then there is the other extreme, the folk who forsake their dreams for making a living. Where you take your life and were it leads is what living with our decisions is all about.

Asking for advice is a good sign though, I didn't ask enough and ignored too much, then again I'm glad beyond belief I didn't take some of it. What you're asking is how to break into a trade and that may mean sweeping floors, emptying trash and doing very manual labor. Still, if it gets you in the door, you're on your way. See if you can pick someone as a mentor, some guys will treat you like dirt, others will treat you like a son.

What skills do you bring to the table? Do you have metal shop skills, welding? fabrication, bending, sheet metal, machining? How about finishing, polishing, painting, etc.? Do you have computer skills? Cadd? Can you draw or read a blueprint? Cut and layout projects? I'm just running some basics out here. What can you bring to the deal, something an employer would find attractive in an employee. It doesn't have to be at a journeyman level even, just a familiarity with a shop's work can make you valuable on an entry level.

If nothing else being the guy who's always a little early, do what you're told and not cause problems is a good thing. that in itself makes for a valuable employee. Being willing to jump into anything that needs done, the guy who's always listening and asking questions when it won't slow the regular crew down, keeping your mouth shut unless asked something.

Breaking into a trade is always a challenge for a young man but it's been done for probably hundreds of thousands of years. We'll help if we can but the real burden is on you. Heck, I did it and I'm pretty lazy. <grin>

Frosty The Lucky.

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If you have the fire in your belly, build a forge, get metal hot and start hammering, on your own, now. Read IForgeIron cover to cover and take it to the forge and make the project to see if it works for you.  In six months to a year you will have samples of your work to show, a client base established, and you will have a years experience to bring to the table. Do not pass up the opportunity to work with other blacksmiths or tradesmen and learn from them. 

Build a stack of credentials, references, etc so you can present it to prospective clients or employers. Place yourself in a position of knowledge so you can speak from experience when you answer their questions.

Network by introducing yourself to others through groups, organizations, clubs, church, etc. Use the TPAAAT technique by contacting everyone you can and be genuinely interested in them, their work, their hobbies, etc. Become a social animal. People will recommend those they know for a job, or pass the word that a job is available if they know you.

You know what you want. Position yourself to succeed.

Edited by Glenn
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 Wow, you guys are really supportive. Thank you. ^_^

I will say you can set up a small forge and your compleat set up will comprise of 2-4 5 gallon (20L) buckets. That my friend will fit in the trunk (boot) of your car. If you have bike thats ok, paniers or a bike trailer will hook you up

​Now you are tempting me to merge my two obsessions - motorbikes and blacksmithing. Even a custom made trailer would probably cost less than a VAN and would be much cheaper to maintain. What about the capacity and weight though? Workbench, forge, anvil, vise and other tools take a lot of space. ...unless I use the trailer as a workbench, as well as use a small gas forge and a lighter anvil. :huh: This idea sounds so crazy I'm probably gonna go for it.

Do you have any specific advice for setting up a compact blacksmithing tool set?

 

 

What skills do you bring to the table? Do you have metal shop skills, welding? fabrication, bending, sheet metal, machining? How about finishing, polishing, painting, etc.? Do you have computer skills? Cadd? Can you draw or read a blueprint? Cut and layout projects? I'm just running some basics out here. What can you bring to the deal, something an employer would find attractive in an employee. It doesn't have to be at a journeyman level even, just a familiarity with a shop's work can make you valuable on an entry level.

​I grew up on a farm with workshops and a lot of tools to play with - I can build a well hatch or shape a steel wedge to fix a loose hatchet. Aside from that I know a bit about programming and I think I could handle milling machines (is this how they are called in english?) after some quick study, but that's not really something I'd be happy to do. Call me crazy, but I prefer engaging, physical work. Drawing is something I'm trying to learn, with little success so far.

As for now, I'm planning to take a leap of faith in a month or two, quit my job, move to Cork and try to find any job in the steel industry. Then I may look into doing some welding courses and go that route until I'll be experienced enough with a hammer to set up a real workshop.

 

 

Network by introducing yourself to others through groups, organizations, clubs, church, etc. Use the TPAAAT technique by contacting everyone you can and be genuinely interested in them, their work, their hobbies, etc. Become a social animal. People will recommend those they know for a job, or pass the word that a job is available if they know you.

​This is something I know I really need to work on. Aside from poor social skills, I find it hard to talk to people about blacksmithing, because I haven't even started practicing it yet.

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Well, early and late iron age anvils wernt all that big, not much more than a 4"block of iron.  Honestly a 6" peice of heavy rail can be made in to a very seviceble small anvil, as can a pice of 2 1/2" shafting or a few otherthings. A large sledgehammer head will do fine. One of those 30 pound monsters those irish chain makers swung would be ideal, but a 10-20# heads would do. A two brick forge would work (two soft firebricks carved out and a propane plumbers torch used as a burner would work, as would a small sideblast built in a bucket. Couple of tongs, couple of hammers, a handfull of punches, drifts and chisels an air supply if your using solid fuel, a stump,,, vice is opinal, they didnt come along in any form that suported hot steel untile resently.

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Having grown up on a farm give you the advantage of knowing how to work and learning quickly. Those are two very desirable skills to offer employers. Milling machine covers a lot of different things in American English, from machining metal, or making lumber, or grinding flour and so on. Lots of different kinds of machinery, a "mill" kind of means factory or processing machine. It's one of those English words that drive a lot of people crazy.

If you want a mobile set up, things like benches aren't very likely possible nor are some of the other larger pieces of equipment. There are ways to do most anything if you want to badly enough though even if you have to invent the thing yourself. For this kind of thing, reading some of the old books is where you'll find the answers. The blacksmith who used the tool chest in the Mastermyr find is a perfect example. Not only did his smithy fit in the chest so did his stock and some finished products and projects in progress.

Frosty The Lucky.

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  To piggyback on what the others have said about reading, I know there are a several good FREE books under the "Download" tab up top.  Google books also has a lot of FREE old downloadable books (1880s to 1920s) on blacksmithing/metallurgy/machinery that will serve quite well alongside more updated resources.

  We have tools/equipment/capabilities nowadays that they couldn't even begin to imagine back then.  They had lots of good tricks that are mostly forgotten about nowadays, some of which I've used at work/play. 

  There are some things though that reading just doesn't do justice for though.  There are a lot of little details that the old writers just took for granted as being common knowledge that would always be there, and without someone to show you those details in real life, the next best way to learn is by watching videos.  Youtube is a very rich resource, if you know what to look for.  One thing to remember is that just about every book you read, and every video you watch, will make this seem easy.  Do not be surprised or disheartened when you spend all day trying to make something that someone did in a video in half an hour.  I still find myself at that point on a pretty regular basis after 3 years.  The reason they can do it that fast is because they have a lot of experience under their hammer hand.

Edited by Quarry Dog
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When I first became interested in blacksmithing, I asked a local blacksmith for advice. He pointed me to Perun website and said that I can get needed tools there. What he didn't tell me was that I can start practicing with a 3,5" wide piece of rail, two firebricks, plumber's torch and a hammer.

I used the TPAAAT for the first time and I gotta say it works. My novice skill shows though. I searched for a scrap heap in my town, after asking few people all I found was a car scrapyard. There they told me there is a scrap heap in nearby town, five miles away. A friendly taxi driver pointed the exact way. At the place a secretary told me they have a contract and can't sell me a single piece of steel. What kind of scrap heap is that? In my country there are at least two in every town and they buy/sell as you please. It seems I am going to have a problem with acquiring materials for practice. Then TPAAAT made me go to the other side of the road where I found Coen Steel warehouse. There a kind old man gave me a piece of rail they put under their rebar piles and told me to walk away. I thanked him and walked away with a big smile on my face. It weghts around 5kg and I don't even know what kind of steel it is, but it'll do for now.

I also acquired two heavy firebricks and I'm trying to figure out what to do with them. The "heavy" part makes me wonder if I made a mistake.

Edited by Fafnir
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The COSIRA blacksmithing books are available online, (Council of Small Industries in Rural Areas). While I believe  they were written for England they should be applicable to the UK.  As I recall when John Anstee was researching pattern welded swords he used a cheese weight as his anvil.  I would suggest contacting as many re-enactment groups as possible and see if there are anyone else near by with the same ideas/goals.  You might be able to team up.  Only takes one guy with a farm to allow a lot of smithing to happen.

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Around hear a walk down the side of the road will yeald more steel that one can carry, lol. 

Another good "book" is published by the UN,  google "basic blacksmithing" "intermidiate blacksmithing" and "advanced blacksmithing" the last dosnt show up on the UN's free down loads (agriculter technoligy) but other sites have it for free. 

Are we talking rail, as in rail road or are we talking "I" beam?

hard firbrick (heavy) takes for ever to get up to temp with a gas torch. Soft brick from a potery kiln suplyer is the stuff 

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Not real good for an anvil, but if you keep moly of it it will make a fine chiseling bench. Try scouting around for construction equipment repair shops, agricultural equipment shops, drops from machinist shops that service either shop, marine or train maintinance shops, etc. Again a largish sledge and a broken truck axle will get you started. 

 

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See if you can track down Gunvor Anhoj and Michael Calnan. Apart from being really friendly people they are outstanding artist blacksmiths and they also run some weekend courses for people just like you!

I think they are probably on the other side of Ireland to you, but even if it is too far to travel (on your motorbike :) ) they will have names of people nearer to you to visit I am certain.

Alan

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Structural shape steel like I beam don't make very good anvils but if that's all you have it's what you use. Can you find a good sized fine grain boulder? They work well enough, Viking smiths made fine iron and steel work on boulders start to finish. I wouldn't plan my shop around a boulder but if that's what I had to use I'd use it.

Frosty The Lucky.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had to give up looking for soft firebricks. They don't use them much in Ireland, people make wide eyes every time I ask if they sell them. Instead, I decided to build a trash can forge insulated with perlite/aluminium oxide mix, following this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQN7EqGMTuo.

What do you think of this project? Do you have any advices regarding forge diameter or shape and placement of the burner?

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Never having used the mix I don't have a good opinion so I'll keep my fingers closed. The al oxide inner liner should work pretty well though I have my doubts about the silicon oxide holding up in contact with hot borax. Still, that's for what it's worth seeing as I've never tried it.

There are a number of upsides to casting a forge, you get to choose the shape from the beginning. I can't advise you on shape because I don't know what you want to make.

One of the guys in the Alaska club made a mail box shaped forge with the burner aimed upwards from through floor close to the wall. My first impression was OH NO! crap will be falling into the burner all the time. However Tristan has been using that forge quite a while now without problems. Once again I'm wrong ad glad to find out about it.

I like y burners closer to the center of the forge but again, that's me. I do like a hot spot I can access without having to put as much in the forge. I also like aligning the burner tangential to the liner so the flame creates a vortex in the fire chamber. This evens the temperature significantly but the forge still has a hotter zone. The flame also isn't blowing directly on the work so small pieces don't get moved by it.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I read an artical by Mark Asbery (spelling?) in witch based on testing he was recomendinf a 12" diamiter with a 1" burner, as his experiments showed the 1" was just a bit more effent than the smaller burners (btu/fuel used) and the larger diamiter alowed the fuel in the flame to be consumed befor it hit an obstical (again geting mor heat for the amount of fuel burned) 

he ended up building 9" deap forges (size of soft fire brick floor) forges out of 12" tubing, 2" koawool insulation with 1" burners. Tho a 8"deep "D" 12" high should work (size of 2 hard fire bricks) as I need a floor big enugh for a draft horse shoe. 

any potery supply houses in Iraland? They often have soft fire brick for building/relining kilns.

Edited by Charles R. Stevens
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Trades which lend training to a potential blacksmith;

Welder

Plumber

Jeweler

Sheet metal 

Fabrication (any material)

Carpenter

Electrician

Drafting

Graphics

A job in any of these fields will give experience applicable to blacksmithing. 

Don't forget the darkside as well (farrier). 

 

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