Hardie cutter

[Stephen Jones]

Hi Guys.

Im new to blacksmithing (I'm still playing with rebar). However I decided to try and make a cutter for my Hardie. I live on an Island and couldnt get 1 1/2" inch mild steel so had to buy 1 3/4" Bright steel. 

Is this any good for tool making and how high should I try to get the cutting edge. I had to buy a meter of this bar ( xxxx expensive stuff). So Im hoping it has its uses.

 Ive started to shape the bar using varous hammers from 7lb down to 4lb when my arm get sore. I have also been using the hardie hole as a dye and tried hitting the bar into the hole and upsetting the steel above the line. 

All advice would be welcome 

[BigDrew]

I believe bright steel is cold rolled mild steel right? You have to figure that cold mild steel will be harder than hot mild steel so it should make serviceable hot cut. However, you'd have a much more hardy, pun intended, hardy if you made it from an old car axle or like material. My hot cut is made from 1.5" axle stock and I use it unhardened. Works great. Google Brazeal style hot cut.

[arftist]

Not sure I understand the upsetting bit. Are you trying to make the hot cut wider? 1.75" stock will easily render itself much wider without upsetting. To fit into the hardy hold, the stock must be drawn out. Made thinner and longer. 

I suggest you pose highly specific questions. I am sure it is obvious to you what you would like help with but it isn't very clear to me.

One other suggestion; search this site. Not many topics have never been covered. then ask specific questions. 

Best search is as follows; making a hardy cut off tool iforgeiron

which lead to this; https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1RNBD_enUS472&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=making a hardy cut off tool iforgeiron.com&es_th=1

Lots and lots of info. 

By the way, welcome. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

A very servicble hot cut hardy (and hot set for that matter can be maid from a truck leafe spring. Forge to fit diaginaly in the hardy hole. As for the hot set, forge the spring in on its self to form a striking edge, fuller (forge a "Z" saped peice of round bar to set on the anvil and place the hot spring between it and another peice of bar and strice to form half round indentions) rap a peice of thin rod arounfd it for a handle. This is not only a good way for a beginer to get a start with out killing himself (most beginers do well with 2 1/2-3# hammers) but makes lighter tools for hauling around when you start doing demoes.

[Stephen Jones]

arftist Upsetting the steel above the anvil. is only due to using the hardy as a die. the hot bit gets squeezed in to the hardie and the bits that don't get moved up and out widening above the hole. so its not intentional., Hope that makes sense.

 

And thanks for the welcome guys

[arftist]

arftist Upsetting the steel above the anvil. is only due to using the hardy as a die. the hot bit gets squeezed in to the hardie and the bits that don't get moved up and out widening above the hole. so its not intentional., Hope that makes sense.

 

And thanks for the welcome guys

​It doesn't make sense to me, but I am a little slow sometimes. I have made a lot of hardy tools, always the same way. I start with stock thicker than my hardy hole. I then draw it out, making thinner and tapered until it fits into the hole and sticks down a little. Then I take a good heat and seat it into the hardy hole.  The stems produced this way are 3 1/2" long and fit tightly. It is very important to me that the stem reach below the anvil so that I can knock the hardy tool free with whatever tool is in my hand, mid heat. Even if one were to extrude the metal as you are describing it is not an upsetting process. Drawing done in a die is still drawing, not that I am saying your proposed method is possible. IMHO, it isn't. http://thelibraryofmanufacturing.com/extrusion.html

[ianinsa]

Stephen, sadly what you bought is very accurate, dimensionally ground and lets not forget quite pretty mild steel. It is far from suitable to use as a hot cut. Obviously any forging at this stage is good practice, but save yourself the anguish on this one till you have a suitable(or just MORE suitable) material! This need not be expensive, as noted above axles and springs work well and don't forget things like jackhammer bits, try asking at the local tool hire if the have any old, worn or broken ones.  

Then get yourself a drink and some snacks and browse IFI  you'll get loads of info on this one.

BTW. Welcome and please update your profile to include your general location, firstly as there may be another smith close and answers are often area specific

Edited May 1, 2015 by ianinsa

[Stephen Jones]

ianinsa  wish I'd read a bit more before i bought the bar. However getting metal on this island is a nightmare. Everything is at a premium due to shipping costs. I bought a post vice on-line this morning and I'll have to wait till I go back to Scotland in the summer to pick it up as it would have cost more than the vice to ship it here. There may be a chance I could pick up an old axle or leaf spring. I have managed to get hold of as much re-bar as I could ever want though I'm told due to its composition its not much use in blacksmithing. I will persevere though and try to find and axle or spring to work on. Thanks for the advice and the welcome.

arftist drawing out would probably be a better description of what I was trying to do.  I like the idea of a long stem and ease of knocking it out the hardie. 

This is as close as I got with the method I tried.  So as I said to ianinsa Ill look for a better material to work with.

Any ideas what I could do with an almost meter long section of 1 3/4" square bar?

[stan]

Hi Stephen in regards to the 1 3/4" bar if you stick with forging you will use it at some point.What size is your anvil`s hardy hole? I have a length of 1'"sq mild steel I use to weld onto some tools to fit the hardy hole, example.

[arkie]

Stephen, 

Try a local auto or truck repair shop.  They might have some broken or bent axles, coil springs or something of the sort you could use.  Farm equipment or heavy equipment repair places might have shafts, springs, bars, pins, etc. you could use as well.

[bigfootnampa]

Also make a search for scrap yards.  Surely there is at least one on the island... dumps are even better!  Rebar is good material!  I use it often!  It is a bit more work because of the textured surfaces.  I usually start out on my power hammer retexturing the entire surface of the rebar... NOW it is a MUCH more interesting material than manufactured rod!

Working only by hand I would cut corners somewhat by using some of the original rebar texture as "character" for many pieces!  

Attend local farm sales, flea markets, and seek out junk stores (sometimes called "Antique" stores).  Soon you'll have a NICE pile of various metals!!!  

[norrin_radd]

If push comes to shove  and you have a pritchell hole in your anvil, you could try making a workable hardie cutter with a tire iron. If they are cheap and available where you live, they should be something harder than mild steel. You may even be able to use it in a properly sized hole in work bench or vise for example. I know it may sound lame but I've made 2 and they work ok. Good luck and stick with it.

Edited May 2, 2015 by norrin_radd

[Charles R. Stevens]

the isue with rebar, like A36 it's compisitian is unknown, as long as it was strong enugh for the job that was all they were concerned with. You will have to experiment to get an idea as to what it is, mild steel, medium or high carbon are all posibilities as are som funky aloys. We see a lot of cheep stiff that I swear was old rail coming out of mexico. Its hard as a rock, dont dare quench it. But some mexicans swear by it for horse shoes. And it makes a servicible hot cut chisel. Scrap steel will be your friend, its as hard to get stuff off an island as it is on, so its likely most any steel that has been brought over is still there. Rail, axles, springs, stearing components, heavy equipment and farm equipment...

[VaughnT]

That piece looks like you're trying to pound the stock down into the hardy hole, using the hole to force the iron to shape.  That's just not going to work out like you're thinking.

If you have a forge and anvil, heat the metal and draw a taper on the end so that you have about 3" of stock sticking down into the hardy.  Then you can upset the shoulder a little bit to create something to sit on the face of the anvil.

Stock the size you have will be great for all matter of things, so don't fret if it sits in a corner for a year or two while you wait for the opportunity to use it.  

As others have said, car repair places are a great resource for larger chunks of metal.  Garbage dumps and recycling places should also have goodies.  There's a lot of good metal in old washing machines and the like.  Folks don't often see it, but it's there if you look.

[Stephen Jones]

Ive put the word out and have a few mates looking for 1/2 shafts (high carbon) and axles. 

Stan The hardie hole is 1 1/2" All ive really done with the rebar is make a couple of those things that fit in the pritchel hole and hold down work on the anvil. I dont have the benefit of a power hammer or a place to store it for that matter. 

Charles R. Stevens The island is less than 40 square miles in size so no railways unfortunately. I might know someone that works for the local bus garage might be useful for springs.

Theres one scrap yard on the island iIl pop round there on my next day off and see what I can get. 

VaughnT what metal is in a washing machine? Ive never tried stripping one down.

norrin_radd Thats a good idea if i make a tool head and weld it to a bit of rebar it might work in the pritchel kinda like stan does with the hardie hole idea.

This is my tiny brake drum forge with a pink hair dryer for air (1000w) and my little anvil at the back (303lb)

Edited May 3, 2015 by Stephen Jones
added pic and description

[Stephen Jones]

I finally found  a supplier of 1 1/2 square bar so come the end of the month i can get started

[the iron dwarf]

I normally give away pieces of tool steel to visiting smiths and newbies, mostly from new kango chisels

[ThomasPowers]

My primary hardy is the broken off end of a jackhammer I forged the stub down to fit the hardy hole and the worn blade a bit thinner to cut a bit more aggressively.  normalized it and it's easy to dress as needed---and with students it's *needed*!

[Stephen Jones]

the 1 1/2" is the size of my hardie so now i can make tools and weld them to the bar and it should fit and work i hope

 

[ThomasPowers]

Yes I have 3 anvils with 1.5" hardy holes; you may want to look into my trick of forging down top tools so the struck end fits in your hardy hole(s).  I bought a bunch of mushroomed top tools cheap and use my screwpress to make them nice and parallel  and fitting the hardies.

[arkie]

A quick and dirty hot cut can be made from a discarded mason's chisel.  Just slowly grind the cutting edge to the shape you desire and fit the handle to your hardy hole.  A chisel I used was a perfect fit in my 1" hardy hole.  You might have to shim or build up welds on the handle for larger holes, or grind it down for smaller ones.  This will hold you until you can forge one.