AkNewbie Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Hello everyoneI am a 4th generation Alaskan living in Anchorage(although some of my early life was spent in AZ). I have been interested in blacksmithing and metal work for quite some time but am wanting to actually get my hands dirty. My father was a tool and die maker for the first half of his career, and so I have learned quite a bit when it comes to lathing and milling and the like but have never really had the tools or chance to get into blacksmithing. Currently, I have purchased the stuff to build a small propane forge (yet to build it) and my shop has a lot of the standard metal working tools but I am missing some of the key elements like an anvil and pliers. So with the backstory out of the way, I am looking for some suggestions on a cheap(ish) way to get an anvil in Alaska. I was thinking about making a post anvil kinda like the one shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZQy-NU_TTc I have a lot of scrap metal around, although I have no idea what most of it is. I have some hydraulic cylinders lying around and thought that might work as a starting post anvil, but i'm not really sure what type of steel I should be using for something like that (I should probably just google it). Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Greetings and welcome, You will be welcomed in great fashion by our best.. " FROSTY " He lives in AK and will guide you better than you could ever believe. Good luckForge on and make beautiful thingsJim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Welcome to the group! I am in Anchorage, so is Jim who is hosting the local meet in April. Jim is from AZ as well.Frosty is out in the valley and I am sure will speak up soon.Anvils are hard to come by up here. I would suggest getting a bit of rail from the railroad down at ship creek ,they sell bits by the foot and it works well. We have been discussing another tong making class as well so you are just in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Welcome aboard, GLAD to have you! We're always looking for new folk in the club. How much of a hurry are you in for a forge? I'm going to be putting on a forge and burner build workshop sometime this summer. discussion of details will be part of the April 18th.meeting at Jim's.Last meeting we had a number of first time attendees and the group of older guys who've been attending just keeps getting larger. I'm thinking maybe the club is showing signs of catching on and growing. The problem of taking up blacksmithing in Alaska is tools and equipment. Last June I decided not to damage my shop forge by hauling it to Art On Fire and just put a brick pile forge together with one of my T burners. The shop forge is too complex for a beginner's forge unless you're a chronic over designing fabricator like me. Even though the brick pile isn't really any different in practice from the shop forge they aren't the least intimidating, they're just s stack of fire brick with a burner poking in a gap.Coal is hard to come by here even though I can look out the living room window at the Talkeetna mts. we still have to ship smithing coal in from outside. <sigh> That sort of leaves charcoal or propane forges. Got that covered, T burner and stack of bricks on a cart and you have FIRE.Mark is our super tong making guy, we're hoping he can make the next meeting and maybe hold a tong and other tool work shop this summer. Another thing to talk about at this meeting.Anvils. An anvil is something hard and heavy enough to beat screaming HOT steel into submission against. That can be almost anything, Ive used boulders anvils and cobbles for hammers, not that I recommend them but it's an example of not needing "special" tools for general smithing. Anyway, as part of general basic blacksmithing demos at meetings I'm thinking of dragging a couple pieces of rail along. On the flange, it's side or on end, rail makes a fine anvil, I used one for years.I can show you how to do virtually all operations using rail, or for that matter a post/shaft/ whatever anvil. A super "field expedient" anvil I found in the Resurrection River was an axle off some LARGE thing. I buried it on end flange up on a river bank and it was an outstanding anvil. I still kick myself for leaving it there when we left.Well, wasn't THAT a long howdy do?I'll be looking forward to meeting you, we have more in common than you might think but I've probably gone on long enough. <wink>Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John on Fishhook Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Welcome AKNewbie: I built a post anvil from a 3" steel pipe, a Toyota rim and a 1" steel top and it works well. The 3" pipe fits into the rim center hole and the 1" top had a 1" hole it. I used it to compensate for the missing hardy on my anvil. It holds my cut off tool and my mandril, both are homemade. Once you have a forge, you make the tools you need, usually as you need them: tongs, hammers and forge coal tools. My forge is coal fueled with a blower from a dryer and plans f rom a book by Randy McDaniels. The book also has plans for a welded anvil that looks like it would work. The pictures I'm sending shows a 1" bridge bolt. I got it that red hot in 3 minutes. I drifted a hole for a handle and I use it as a flatter . You don't hammer with it, you hit it to flatten things. The bolt was 18" long and I made a hammer and mandril from it. Now that I have a heat source, I melt aluminum and glass it it. It is all new to me and is very exciting and great fun even the mistakes and outright failures. My fellow blacksmith burt a 1" hole in a lawn mower blade he was going to make into a knife. He had a gas forge and was not used to the rapid heating of a coal forge. I'm JUST STARTING to melt aluminum. Good luck, it's non-stop fun. John on Fishhook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoucowboy18 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 AK Newbie welcome from the other newbie. I was quite surprised when I came up here from the amount of Smiths that are around. Super helpful and friendly guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Welcome! I'm pretty new to this game too. You'll find fellas suggesting to pack a lunch, and devote some time to reading the forums. There's a ton of info here, as well as really knowledgeable folks that share. I'll keep my eyes peeled for an anvil. Edited February 26, 2015 by Jeddly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) John: I think you're describing your forge, your ear muffs are hanging on the horn of the anvil in the picture. Looks like a fine forge. Where are you finding coal?Have you done any aluminum casting? If so, what kind of molds are you making?One of the club members is a bronze caster, among other things. Late June is Art On Fire where he runs the iron pour. Molten iron is impressive just being near. He teaches as well. The club also usually has at least a couple demonstrators forging. I'm usually there, playing with fire, hitting things and talking to folk.Are you coming to the April 18th. club meeting? You're more than welcome.Frosty The Lucky. Edited February 26, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkNewbie Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 Wow, thanks for the warm welcome. I had heard of using railroad rail but wasn't sure how you would go about flattening it out. I'll do some research!one other question: where do you suggest finding fire brick? I checked with SBS and they only stock it in their Palmer store I'll probably have to grab some from there the next time I'm out that way, but would like to buy some in anchorage if someplace else stocks it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 E. J. Bartells in Anchorage sells fire brick, both hard and soft and most of the other refactory supplies. I have a piece of train rail down at a friends cabin you can have if you have not found anything by the time I get down there next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 With rail you have a couple options. Use it on end and you have a small place to flatten and hammer on( you honestly don't need a big area to be effective. Another is to use the rail side up and live with the rounded face. You will still be able to do flat things once you get the hammer control required. Also some people have had the tops machined flat but I think that is an expensive and un needed option. In the long run an anvil will happen for you, they just take while, in the mean time Lots of things have been used by professionals, even rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkNewbie Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) I have a CNC mill as well as a precision grinder which should be good for making the rail flat. Who should I call about getting some rail? I sent an email to someone I found on the AKRR website but any contacts you guys have could be useful. Edited February 27, 2015 by AkNewbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 If it was me I would not waste time flattening it. You will want to contact the maintenance shop at ship creek, I would start at the main office so you are not trespassing when you go looking for the shop. Otherwise mention it at the meeting, someone just told us they had some available if we could cut it but I can't remember who it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I believe its about 2 ft long piece of main rail. If things go as planned I would be able to get it in a couple weeks. No need to cut unless you want a smaller piece.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Flattening the rail doesn't really improve anything and it can be a bugger, you have to grind it unless you want to anneal it first. The problem with flattening it is losing the hardened face. Rail is nominally 1085 low alloy high carbon steel. While I'm not sure how the main body of the rail is heat treated, it's unhardened to prevent embrittlement. The contact or wear surface of the rail however is induction hardened a few thousandths deep. The hardened cap layer does two things, first it provides a very stiff contact point to the train tires don't deform the rail and secondly it provides a abrasion resistant low friction contact surface.To flatten the rail you have to grind or anneal before machining. Annealed rail will dent and bend so it's not quite as efficient as an anvil. That's not a deal killer but it's real. A little thing maybe but a thing.I'll drag some rail to the next meeting and I'll be more than happy to show you why a flat anvil face is way less than necessary. If you have a cut off band saw in the shop I'll show you how to saw it for nice clean cuts you won't have to grind clean making an on end rail anvil soooo much easier.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 You can also wait until you scrounge a piece of "worn out" rail with the top nice and flat and quite work hardened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 If you want a flat surface you can weld a bar on the end so you can use the rail upside down. then you can have both the flat surface and the rail surface as you desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 If you want a flat surface you can weld a bar on the end so you can use the rail upside down. then you can have both the flat surface and the rail surface as you desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEdaw Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hello everyone,I'm not quite new to Alaska, but new to smithing. I'm located in Fairbanks and wondering if anyone else on the forum is near here. I'm still in the process of gathering materials, my fire bricks for a two brick forge arrive tomorrow, and very much looking forward to getting started. An anvil is still a slight problem for me though. I know where i can snag a rail from, however, I don't have a way to transport or cut it at the moment. I'm very open to suggestions and information everyone has to getting started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Good lord we are being taken over by the abdominal snowmen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) For rail, I would just look at welding a chunk of thick plate on one end, and then stand the rail on end. That puts all of the mass under the hammer, and gives you a bigger surface to work on.Look for a junk forklift tine, they are good material, and already heat treated. Better than a chunk of rail in my opinion. Edited April 24, 2015 by BIGGUNDOCTOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Frosty is having issues and is temporarily locked out of the site.AK Newbie- he said he is interested in your help with the email server. PM me your email and I will get you his email address so you can talk directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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