Bo T Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm just starting out, I've put together a solid fuel forge and a pseudo (sledge head in concrete) stump anvil. Took a couple of classes and managed to make some tools. I volunteered to help out an experienced blacksmith with some demos this summer and am trying to find info on frontier/fur trade blacksmithing. I found a couple of pages on the web and a book and dissertation on a couple or digs around the great lakes. Thanks for any information that you can provide.Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Colonial American and period French and English iron work are realy what you are talking about, with a preponderance of trade knives, axes, traps and gun locks. Plus everything else smiths did. As shipping costs and just the logistics of transporting things to frontier outposts, recycling (always popular among smiths) and fewer, lighter and cobbled together/DIY tooling would be the order of the day, big trading posts on major river routs might sport a fully equipped shop with regular supply, otherwise your persona isn't likely to have a 150# London patern anvil lol. Stake, post and block anvils are the order of the day, and in the smaller posts, your limited to what can be brought in by pack mule, canoe or porter, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Dear Bo,Try the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chadron, NE. I'm not sure what they have on their website but they have displays of quite a number of artifacts that were made by fur trade blacksmiths, many from the Hudson's Bay Company. They may have a number of books for sale which will have some good chapters.There is also the Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale, WY. I haven't been there but I hear it is good.Try to get a copy of "Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men" by Carl P. Russell, reprinted by Skyhorse Publishing, 2011. There is quite a bit about fur trade blacksmiths. Also, "Southwestern Colonial Ironwork" by Marc Simmons and Frank Turley (who participates on this forum), Museum of New Mexico Press, 1980 would be a valuable resource and would illustrate the ironwork used in the fur trade which came north from Taos and Santa Fe. Remember, fur trade blacksmiths would have been located in permanent bases such as fur trade posts or forts, e.g. Bent's Fort, Fort Laramie, Fort Bridger, etc.. they would have served the local population and would have manufactured trade goods such as fire steels and awls. The free trappers or organized brigades wouldn't have had much iron work with them and would have utilized a blacksmith to repair beaver traps or fire arms and to obtain the afore mentioned trade items. There would probably have been more repair work for people at the fort or the trading post.Blacksmiths did accompany major expeditions such as Lewis and Clark and Jed Smith and were present at the various Redezvous.Good luck and if you like I can probably find some photos I have taken of displays at the Museum of the Fur Trade.Ferrously,George M. PS One experience I had with fur trade blacksmithing is that some years ago (but not as many as it sounds like) in Laramie, WY I made a reproduction buffalo skinning knife for a guy. When I was finished he didn't have the agreed to cash and I took a buffalo skull in trade. I subsequently traded the skull and a couple of tanned deer hides for a copy of the Oxford English Dictionary which is still in my library and is a regular reference book for me.Also, I have found that camping type ironwork such as campfire tripods, etc. are popular with fur trade re-enactors.GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo T Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Thanks for the information.The library had a copy of Russell's book so I'll read that in some detail. I'll start following up on the other trails as time permits. I did bookmark a Mountain Man site that had a lot of historical accounts of fur traders and adventurers during that time frame. Their digital library is great.Thanks again,Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Since you list Washington state as location. There is Fort Vancouver, in Vancouver WA which is set up as 1845 Hudson Bay company. I am one of the volunteers there, several of us will be at the NWBA mentoring center event in Longview next Saturday, where we will demo some tool making then have a work party to make more tools for the mentoring center followed by open forge once the tools are done,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo T Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks for the info, Rashelle. If I get the chance I'll make the journey to the other side of the state. But this year is cramped (time wise). Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I have some very fond memories of visiting Ft. Nisqually on vacation one summer and managed to volunteer myself in the blacksmith shop. It made me wish we had something similar here. I'd love to come play, something else for my bucket list.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Generally speaking, ... a "Frontier" Blacksmith would have been primarily engaged in doing "repairs", ... rather than making "trade" goods.The knives, axes, needles and tinware, ... would have been mass produced in populated, industrialized areas, ... and transported to the "Frontier".A Blacksmith actually working on the Frontier, would have repaired tools, tack, traps, guns and wagons, ... and due to His itinerant lifestyle, ... was most likely referred to as a "Tinker". There was very little material available on the Frontier, ... and for that reason alone, ... little in the way of "new" goods was ever produced under those conditions. It wasn't until "settlement" began in earnest, ... that the classic "Village Blacksmith" came into being, ... with a permanent Shop, and more sophisticated tools and equipment, ... allowing Him to actually "manufacture" a wide array of items. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Fort Nisqually is the name of the other place I was trying to remember. There is a blacksmith shop set up there and their personnel are good peoples too. Thank you Frosty for remembering them for me. The NWBA library (you can check the contents via the website) will be moving to the mentoring center soon. The books, videos, and other reference material will be available to be checked out at the monthly mentoring center events, along with the conferences, etc. I believe some of the above mentioned books are part of our library. You can make arrangements to pick up a book rather then having it mailed to you at the mentoring center also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) You had me penciling Ft. Vancouver in on my bucket list it looked good on Google so I was ready to go. Are you familiar with the big steam donkey and log boom out back of Fort Nisqaully site? It and much of the other logging camp was donated by one of my great grand uncles, probably to get it off the land but it has personal family history. A lot of the menfolk on that side of the clan worked on or around that boom, one died topping a tree to rig it in the late teens early 1920's.Dad used to tell stories about his buddies getting together to drive across Galloping Gertie (The Tacoma Narrows Bridge) when she was dancing. You used to be able to see some of the Narrows Bridge's debris in the water from the bluffs or the new bridge. I don't know about now though, I haven't stopped and looked in a long time.Frosty The Lucky. Edited February 23, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Frontier smiths did manufacture new items, such as hinges from wagon tires and such. Certainly steeling axes and such was on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Hudson's Bay Company records record iron rods, etc. being shipped out via canoe brigades to blacksmiths at the various fur trading posts in western Canada. There are also records from the posts of the various trade items produced by the smiths, usually over the winter months. During the summer it seems that it was repair work mainly.Frontier smiths along the immigration trails in the US made a good living repairing the immigrants' wagons and gear at whatever rates the trade would bear. Also, I am sure that there was a great deal of trade for items that the immigrants didn't want to haul any further. By the time they got to Ft. Laramie or Ft. Bridger the idea of hauling that bed or rocking chair all the way on to Oregon or California didn't look all that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yes, ... with the Medicine Bow Mountains looming on the horizon, Fort Laramie would have been a likely place to lighten the load.I suspect the early brothels in the area, were well outfitted, with GaradMa's heirloom furniture. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Rusty Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I make lots of different frontier/period items as I also do re-enacting ...turn screws (screwdrivers), nails, eating utensils like spoons and forks, fire steels (every one owned at least one), candle holders, beam hooks and about anything else a rifleman or frontier settler family might need. In Ohio prior to 1850, there were very few roads thru the country. What roads that were cut out were poor, rutted and stump strewn. Buffalo traces were the normal route and horses were the better family mode of transportation. Many things families left behind in the east to head to frontier Ohio. When they arrived here, alot of barter went on for goods and services as period documents mention that hard coinage money was difficult to have or keep.Most everything a person used or owned was made either of wood or iron. People preferred wood bowls or truncheons to eat out of instead of china as china quickly dulled the edge of a period blister steel knife. About everyone came to the blacksmith for almost all their wants ... hunting implements, tools, house wares, farming goods, horse needs like bridle bits, stirrups and tack, and including getting their teeth pulled if no doctor was available !!Ohio RustyThe Ohio Frontier Forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Dear Smoothbore,Minor geographic quibble: You can't see the Medicine Bow mountain range from Fort Laramie. The Laramie Mountains and Laramie Peak are in the way. The Medicine Bows are visible to the west of the City of Laramie which is about 100 miles SW of Fort Laramie.The legacy of fur trapper Jacque La Ramie is somewhat confusing. The City of Laramie is in Albany County and located in the Laramie Basin and is beside the Laramie River. Laramie County is to the east of Albany County and contains the City of Cheyenne. Fort Laramie (originally called Ft. John) is about 100 miles NE of the City of Laramie and was so named because it is on the Laramie River near its confluence with the North Platte River. And Laramie Peak is the highest point in the Laramie Range and is located west of Ft. Laramie and was a major landmark on the Oregon Trail. It was the first mountain the immigrants would see. By that time they would have been on the trail a month or more.Geographically,George M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) As a young man, I often hunted on the Farthing, Bell and Herzog Ranches, ... which were located more-or-less between the Laramie Mountains, and the Medicine Bow.The 30+ ensuing years, had apparently obscured the distinction in my memory, between the town of Laramie, ... and Fort Laramie, ... on the Oregon Trail.I'm sure the mental image I'm recalling, ... would have been the view of the Medicine Bow Mountains, ... as seen from somewhere just East of the town of Laramie, ... near Horse Creek, ... and roughly 75 miles Southwest of Fort Laramie.After enough years have passed, it all sort of runs together ..... ----------------------------------------------------------I've had a life-long fascination with the whole "Medicine Bow", and "Medicine Wheel" phenomenon. . Edited February 24, 2015 by SmoothBore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Laramie is my emotional hometown. I attended the University of Wyoming there for both undergraduate and grad school. It also has the association of meeting my late wife there.It is my understanding that the Medicine Bow Mountains are so named because the Native Americans would make particularly strong bows from the mountain mahogany bushes which grow on the lower elevations.The Medicine Wheel in the Bighorn Mountains in N. Wyoming is a really cool place. I understand that there are other medicine wheels throughout the northern plains area.If you ever get out west again I could show you some interesting things in that part of Wyoming."Powder River! Let 'er buck!"George M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo T Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 A lot of good information here. I picked up a beat up pair of tongs at a muzzle loading get together at the Coeur d'Alene fairgrounds. I suppose that I'll start my repair apprenticeship fixing those. The striker I made didn't work worth a darn. So I'll make a few of those. At least until I get one that throws sparks. "Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men" is a real good read but I've only managed to cover bits and pieces of it. Thanks again,Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Dear Bo,I've found that garage door springs make good firesteels.GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 High carbon and hardened is the trick to fire steels, the higher carbon, the harder it gets (with in reason) and the hotter the steel slivers get when the flint shaves them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Yeah, it MUST be high carbon and hardened. I agree, garage door springs are near perfect, you can just cut it straighten it and harden it and it'll work a treat. Garage/yard/etc. sale allen wrenches are maybe even better striker stock.Frosty The Lucky. Edited February 25, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 As far as the strikers go, I picked up a tip from someone on here that helped me with mine. I didn't think it was "worth a darn" until I read where someone said to grind off the surface layer. Somehow, that did the trick and it would then throw sparks nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Surface layer is often decarburized especially by new smiths who take longer making them. (And a classic example contradicting the idea that you are putting carbon into the piece while forging.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo T Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 I have read more of Russells book and have a few questions. The oval striker is described in some detail, but a couple of items I'll start with weren't. At least I didn't see anything much beyond the drawing. They are the 'moccasin and canoe' awls. Any information on the @ size of these tools? Also, when using mild steel would a blacksmith 'work harden' tools like these or nails by shaping below forging temperature?Thanks,Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Nothing to contribute on the fur trade, (although now y'all got me interested....) But unless I was looking in the wrong place, nothing visible left of the old bridge when I was stationed at Ft. Lewis, Frosty. And boy didn't I look for it........ Supposed to be an artificial reef underwater formed by it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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