deglen Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 This project is to replace an existing old chain link entry gate for a volunteer community garden with a fabricated, more artistic one. I would like to use the existing 2 1/4" diameter galvanized posts (see attached drawing) which were placed by a commercial fence company several years ago in what was likely a sufficiently deep hole to prevent frost heaving but only about 8" diameter concrete footer. The inside dimension between the two posts is 49". I made my gate* 48" wide (which may be a problem, I realize now). The gate will weigh approx 150#. My question is the best way to hinge it. I was thinking that pintles would be best given the small gap size available. The left attachment would be a fabricated cylindrical clamp for the hanging post with a simple smaller cylinder welded on to receive the pintle. Is it necessary to use a bearing or cap it and put in a grease zerk? Also, how far apart should the hinges be and how far from the ends? In order to stabilze the gate and reduce the stress on the hanging post, I planned to add a top arch to span the space between the two posts. I welcome your comments and advice. *frame is 1 1/2" square tubing. 'vine' elements are 3/4" round tapered to 1/4". about 40 leaves of 12 gauge will be welded on the vines. gate is 4' x 6'. arch is 2 1/2" x 1/4" flat and letters will be 1" x 1/4" flat bent to shape. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I know we have discussed this project in Pm's before some what. 1/2" on each side is going to be tough. The chain link fence I helped install a few weeks back, I bet the gap on each side of the gate was at least 2". If your posts aren't perfectly plumb, or parallel, that's going to cut your working space even more. All my good ideas for gate hinges would really need more space than what you have. I like going with sockets on a threaded post. That lets you screw them in and out as needed to get your gate spacing right in the field. The 3 point equipment "swivels" are things I've seen used for this numerous times. Keep in mind the lowest part of your arch probably shouldn't be any shorter than 6'8", the height of a standard door, and you can bet if it's that low, some kid will try to hang from it and swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 The gate will weigh approx 150#. Build the gate and hinges so that a 200 pound kid can climb on and swing. That is a 350 load total on the gate and hinges and may still be a little light. The kid would most likely be on the latch side of the gate, which will create a 4 foot lever arm with his weight. I agree with DSW to provide some method of adjustment for the hinge. This will allow for sag, leveling, and things being out of square on the support posts. letters will be 1" x 1/4" flat bent to shape. Print the letters out on paper (2 or 3 feet in length) and take them to the location. Step back 20 feet and see if you can read them. May want to take several different size printed letters to figure out which works best. You may want to try several different fonts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Hinges should be as far apart as possible. Gap isn't a problem with barrel style hinges at all. Manufactured hinges are cheap, pipe with an appropriate sized shaft is fine. Personally I would use stainless pins and oilite bronze bushings but you could also put a single ball bearing on top of each pin (about the same size. a little smaller than the pin. Some will advocate plain steel bearings, it is a matter of personal choice but real bearing give better quality and longevity. With the ability to span the posts there shouldn't be many issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 A pin mounted in the ground next to the post and an extended hing braket to reach the top of the gate work well for high stress applications the top is the only at the top (in out, the bottom can be shimed for up/down) so the frame of the gate becomes the hing Adding it into a chain link fence has both advantages and disadvantages, the net (fence wire) ads some resistance to pullin over the gate, but the posts are usualy light. I would suggest adding a brace from the top of the post (or hinge) to the ground at a either a 45 or 22.5 degree angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The advice I gave in reply to your pm still stands, invert the top pin to prevent it being lifted off too easily by brigands! If the gate leaf only weighs 150lbs the plain bearings will do fine as the billions of five bar field gates attest. I have made only a few gates with plain steel bearings, but have always provided grease points. Sadly I have noted that the grease nipples do not appear to have been used on any of the gates I have revisited whether they had plain, oilite, angular contact or spherical roller bearings :( maybe they only get attention if they start to squeak. If you have made it only an inch smaller than the frame your drawing proportions are misleading. If you are committed to the gate and frame as-made, then converting it to a single swing opening rather than a swing either way, as per your illustration, is easily obtained by rotating your clamp-on hinge journals around the post to one side and use the opposite upright as a slam post. Your arch and the chain link fence will serve to hold a weak post rigid when the gate is closed, But if you do find the post wobbles badly when the gate is opened as mentioned in my pm, the brace that Charles described can be attached on either the opening side where it can incorporate a hold open device, or tucked away from the walkway on the other side. The basic rules of leverage pertain to the positioning of the hinges. If the hinges are (ideally) placed at top and bottom of the backstile a gate panel in portrait format has less leverage pulling against the top hinge than an identical weighted one in landscape orientation. However the higher up the hinge post the top hinge is, the more leverage against the post.... Have you decided on your latch / lock system yet? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deglen Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 thanks to all for the replies. Yes, (to Alan) the drawing dimensions are misleading in that the gaps are actually much smaller than the drawing. I made an inquiry to my local steel supplier for stainless tubing for the gudgeon and the best he had was .049 thick and quite pricey, so I'm thinking that idea won't float - will just make my own with mild steel. I'm going to measure the gap again after the weather clears in hopes that there is actually > 1" . I have not decided on the latch/lock yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 You might check MSC, Mc Master Carr or Graingers for tube. I've bought 304 SS 3/8", 1/2" and 3/4" sch 40 pipe from MSC on a number of occasions. I believe they also have sch 10, but I don't know what lengths or diameters. For what I needed, I just bought pipe nipples and cut them down to the lengths I needed. they did have some socket type fittings, so I assume they also had non threaded pipe, but for some things I wanted one end threaded, so it actually made it easier to go with threaded nipples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 According to your drawing - you can make a vertical cut down the center and remove a couple inches from those parts and re-weld them for the clearance needed for the hinges and spacing between the posts. The branch design can easily be tweaked for the narrowing of your gate. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deglen Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 DSW - thanks, I'll check the big industrial suppliers. Jeremy K - alas, the drawing I attached is not the actual design I'm making. I used an old one I had on hand because I have such a hard time doing computer drawing - I only can draw in windows paint. the real design has vines that are shaped to form 'hidden' initials of the groups that support our community garden, so I can't cut into what I have. I wish I had left more room, but I've made a beginner's mistake not to think through all the steps ahead of time. Experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Post an actual picture of the gate you made and maybe we could offer a fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 DSW - thanks, I'll check the big industrial suppliers. Jeremy K - alas, the drawing I attached is not the actual design I'm making. I used an old one I had on hand because I have such a hard time doing computer drawing - I only can draw in windows paint. the real design has vines that are shaped to form 'hidden' initials of the groups that support our community garden, so I can't cut into what I have. I wish I had left more room, but I've made a beginner's mistake not to think through all the steps ahead of time. Experience. If the gate is tight, you could step it back and mount to the rear of the verticals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Or to the front---I had the same idea. It might be a bit more difficult working the bidirectional catch but not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deglen Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 couple of in process photos attached Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Or to the front---I had the same idea. It might be a bit more difficult working the bidirectional catch but not impossible. Not even really difficult, place a barrel at each end of a plate or buy a duplex hinge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Greetings Deglin. Just my 2c... Sharp pointie elements are rough on dogs and kids... Plus if you can grab them and bend them they will not live long.. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deglen Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 arftist - is this what you mean by putting a barrel at each end of a plate? (see drawing), then weld the barrels to the vertical frame and post? Jim - . I appreciate your comment. I have made them all pretty blunt so far but may add knobs later if they don't end up covered up by the upcoming placement of the leaves. It's still a work in progress. My plan was to make the grill busier at the bottom to keep the wandering dogs out. We already have chain link around the garden and the gophers and rabbits still get in, so I figured the best I could do was keep the dogs out. Jeremy K - I looked at it again today and see that if I can't get the hinge spacing to work as is, it would be possible to make a cut on the horizontal frames about 1/2" from the right side vertical (whatever the correct term in fence language is), take out an inch or two and reweld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deglen Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 having problems attaching drawings....sorry.... I've tried multiple times, using firefox and internet explorer, .png and .jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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