intrex Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hello All, I am just getting over a horrible flu that turned into phenomena. I have had mild ashtma most of my life and in an effort to try to be more lung healthy I am planning to switch over to a gas forge in the next few weeks. I am trying to decide between a 2 burner forge from diamondback and wildersgasforges. Both of these manufacturers are within driving distance from my house and I am going to visit them in the coming weeks. Initially I am leaning towards the 2 burner blacksmith diamondback forge but wondered if any of you had opinions on which way I should be leaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Without know what you plan to be doing with them it's rather a guess on our parts. Do we assume that you will be using them like we do? I just finished off a red hot chili commission and will be teaching a class of new smiths on Wednesday and have to build a special piece of equipment suggested by my Father's physiotherapist next... (a grab bar that will fit over the granite countertops to allow him to pull himself up out of his wheelchair---I get to design it to not mess up the granite or else *never* dare to eat *anything* my mother makes for me. I will probably have to do part in the coal forge as the bends make it hard to fit in the propane forge since I don't have a clamshell forge) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrex Posted January 5, 2015 Author Share Posted January 5, 2015 That is a good question to which I don't really have a good answer, I have been smithing for about 2 years now and still have no idea where it is taking me. I have made about 20 bottle openers and corc screws, lots of tools (drifts, punches, tongs, hardies, etc), steel jewelry, some architectural work and just random strange steel things like a large steel letter D. I usually work with any mild or spring steel I can find at the scrap yard and usually have a different random project every time I get to the forge. I am hoping to be able to make a Brian Brazael style hammer once I get the new gaser. My current small rivet really struggles to hold a large enough fire to adequately heat the 2 1/4" axle I wanted to use as stock. I have built almost everything else that I use for smithing and am really looking forward to buying a new forge rather than building one from scratch. I need to stay around 600 dollars total. The two forges that I found listed in the original post seemed like the best options given the budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I have a two burner proforge and to be honest it is two large or two small half the time, lol. If i was to give up my charcoal forge I would whant 3-4 different gasers, for fuel effency. Coffee can, 1 burner, 2 burner, 3 burner and a big 4 burner furnace. But I agree, coal gives me a sore throught. As my shop space evolves I will be building afew forges, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I just got the 2 burner from Wilder's forge and I love it. It heats up fast, and is awesome for my small project needs. (Like you i'm still making small items as a hobby, no railings or gates just yet!) They have been a great help with my many questions, and the prices can't be beat. I was going to build my own, but realized i'd be spending just as much, if not more, than buying one all ready to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrex Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 Hey Jim, That was the other model I was looking at. Wilder Forge is within 20 minutes from my house and I was planning to go check them out but decided to go with the diamondback forge 2 burner metalsmith. The main reason was because his metalsmith forge can be opened up into a full clam shell so you can get awkward pieces into the forge. Unfortunately they are so busy with orders that I still haven't been able to order one yet. If they don't become available soon I will probably drive out to Wilder Forge to take a look at theirs first hand. Thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I'm in a similar boat due to being asthmatic, but I'm also in a small apartment in an urban area, but thankfully I have a small yard (which I share with my fellow apartment dwellers, but details!). After trying (and failing) to build an affordable gas forge, I decided to do some research and eventually went for the Diamondback two burner blacksmith forge. I had a chat with Dennis (the owner at Diamondback) regarding my projects, and he noted that as a novice bladesmith who plans on making blades and smaller tools/projects (not to mention the tight space), he suggested going for the two burner. Honestly, you may want a better idea what you expect to make before buying a forge, as the last thing you want to do is buy a second (or third) forge if the first isn't big enough. I ordered one right before my home made small brick forge majorly cracked this weekend, so when it arrives I'll be firing it up ASAP and, if you want the details, I'll be glad to share them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibrariaNPC Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Just a heads up: I did fire up the Diamondback this weekend and it works like a champ. Took a bit to get used to, but once I got a feel for the burners and the need to let it warm up (used to soft brick), it worked wonderfully. It was a breeze to put together and I got it to my door a week after I ordered it. I was also warned that the metalsmith is great for working with odd pieces, but isn't as useful for welding in the long run, so if that's a primary goal, you may want to reconsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I've been messaging with another member who is planning on getting a single burner forge. I have the double burner (from Wilders) and a question came up that I'd like to share to get your thoughts. Would a double burner use less fuel to reach a desired temp than a single one? I would think you'd need to crank more fuel into a single burner to reach the same temp (In the same amount of time), but then again the other forge has 2 burners so does that mean it uses more fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ballcain357 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Jimship, I second that question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JME1149 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Just to refine Jim's question a bit, assuming a burn chamber of approx 300 cu. in, how does adding a second burner affect performance both in heating capability and fuel consumption? Would it get to heat in half the time but use twice the fuel to get there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What's the diameter of the burners in question? A single 3/4" will bring 300 cu/in to welding temp depending on the forge chamber's inside shape. If it's long and narrow there'll be a hot zone close to the burner and temps will drop off the farther away you go. Even orienting the burner so the flame swirls in a vortex will only mitigate shape to a point. The fuel consumption question is yes, two burners will burn twice as much unless you adjust, say turn the psi down. Two will heat faster as well and depending on insulation, shape, opening sizes, etc. absolute temp can be higher. Max being the absolute temp of the burner itself. Were I using a long narrow 300 cu/in forge I'd use two 1/2" burners if I needed even heat. A single 3/4" burner would be good if a person wanted a hot zone surrounded by cooler zones, say for setting rivets, upsetting the centers of bars, etc. John messaged me on the side and told me this make of forge doesn't have valves to isolate the burners, it's two or nothing. Put a 1/4 turn ball valve on each burner so you can use one or both as you need. You're blacksmiths tinkering is part of the job description. Just be safe, you're messing with a propane appliance and leaks are a B-A-D thing. NO teflon tape! Propane and teflon evidently combine into ungood compounds, that and any bits of tape that tear loose tend to get blown into things that need to stay clear and clean. NO tape! The HVAC guy who hooked our range up used a thread sealing paste, you should probably ask at the store. I don't use either, I use good quality brass and tapered pipe fittings, no leaks so far. A dab of soapy water is a good way to check. If I have to tell you NOT TO USE A MATCH!!! You should find a safer pursuit, water paints maybe. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I own a Diamondback 2 burner Blacksmith model. I've owned it almost five years and I'm just now getting to the point I need to buy the relining kit. Last time I checked that was about $60. If/when I need another forge, I will buy the same one. I could not be happier with it. I would whole heartedly support anyone's decisions to purchase a Diamondback forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I have seen homemade forges utilizing a blown design with simple needle valve metering. The added cost on these systems is the blower. You can get the chineses blower from blacksmith's depot for @200 USD. You still have to build the forge containment in whatever configuration you need. You can forge weld in these set ups, not so with some of the older naturally aspirated models. We have a whisper mama in the shop and it works ok for everything but forge welding. If you can build one of these rigs, you will get what you want. I believe Bob Menard of the Ball and Chain forge in Portland Maine, made a few of these things for the NEBA A few years ago. He may have plans. Good luck with your project. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrex Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 I finally got the 2 burner metalsmith model shipped to me yesterday. I put it together last night and forged some on it today. It was very easy to setup and use. The only concern I had was that the doors are on hinges and are just held closed by gravity. Flames actually shoot out of the all gaps in the doors while running. It looks pretty cool at night but has to be a huge ineficiency. I am going to talk to Dennis about it this week and will probably come up with some sort of clasping system to keep at least the large front door fully closed when I am not using it. I completely see what charles meant about the sizes of the gas forges. The fire box is actually excessively large for making small items. I made a bottle opener on it today but had to do alot of quenching on scrolls that I didn't want to bend. It was much easier to heat small sections on the coal forge. I may end up making a small one burner can forge for little stuff. I also made a slitting chisel out of a large crow bar that I had lying around. That was much easier to do with the new forge as I was able to round a huge section in one heat that would have usually taken several heats, pretty cool. I didn't realize that atomspheric burners were literally nothing more than a pipe. Now I just have to finish up my tumbler and I will be ready to start spitting out some bottle openers for brew shops :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I finally got the 2 burner metalsmith model shipped to me yesterday. I put it together last night and forged some on it today. It was very easy to setup and use. The only concern I had was that the doors are on hinges and are just held closed by gravity. Flames actually shoot out of the all gaps in the doors while running. It looks pretty cool at night but has to be a huge ineficiency. I am going to talk to Dennis about it this week and will probably come up with some sort of clasping system to keep at least the large front door fully closed when I am not using it. I completely see what charles meant about the sizes of the gas forges. The fire box is actually excessively large for making small items. I made a bottle opener on it today but had to do alot of quenching on scrolls that I didn't want to bend. It was much easier to heat small sections on the coal forge. I may end up making a small one burner can forge for little stuff. I also made a slitting chisel out of a large crow bar that I had lying around. That was much easier to do with the new forge as I was able to round a huge section in one heat that would have usually taken several heats, pretty cool. I didn't realize that atomspheric burners were literally nothing more than a pipe. Now I just have to finish up my tumbler and I will be ready to start spitting out some bottle openers for brew shops :). About the gaps letting flame out being inefficient. The exhaust MUST escape or it isn't going to work at all. Too large a forge eh? So install the 1/4 turn valves and make a moveable partition so you can have a smaller forge, when you need a big one, pull the partition and open the other valve. JUST a pipe!?!? <GASP!> You got TOOKED! Thank goodness the T burner is a highly sophisticated scientifically (less joke that it sounds) developed and precision device. Not just a couple pieces of pipe, a mig tip and some fittings on the end of a hose. <snicker> Welcome to the world of good gas forges, up sides and down. Frosty he Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrex Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Haha Frost, This thing has plenty of exhaust with the two stock ports on the front and back. The forge has three doors so it can be completely opened up in a clam shell. Literally every internal seam of the forge has a small gap that flames shoot out of. Its pretty impressive at night. I need to take a picture of it. Maybe the extra loss in the cracks doesn't matter at all compared to the port openenings for stock. My overly schooled engineering brain makes me think the forge would be able to come up to temperature more quickly if the all of the internal seams were closed but maybe it doesn't matter much at all. I am planning on getting some extra fire bricks this week so I can at least close up the back port if I am using stock that doesn't need to go all the way through the forge. I didn't think about sectioning part of the internal firebox off but will do that too. Things that work the best always seem to turn out to be the simpliest. The T burner in my forge is a pipe :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 We all tend to over think things, especially when trying to figure out something new. Engineers are the worst! <snicker> If you just want better seals on the doors, buy some stove rope and the cement. Stove rope is the gasket material used in wood, coal, oil, gas, stove and furnace doors. Lay the cement bead on the outside of the rope to help protect it from the burners. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The Wilder forge I bought had flames coming from the side port when closed, a firebrick against the door sealed it up nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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