pstodds Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Hello all, I have been offered a 2 CWT power hammer, who i think is a massey, although we had such a long conversation i can't remember. Anyway, i am going to ask him for photos next wednesday so i should have some next weekend, i will also go and try to see it sometime soon, although i am not in a rush. He said it have slides, which i guess he means the guide bars that guide the hammer block and are situated just below the ram, but i have only ever seen a 1 cwt massey with guide rods or slides, and i've only seen clear space 2 CWT's He is asking £1500 for it and i have a few questions below: 1: it has no motor, so whereabouts can i get one that is suitable? i can't remember if he said that it had the motor pulley or not, but i am sure he does, otherwise he would have mentioned it.. But he recommended 7-10 HP, where in the UK is the cheapest place to get one, prefferably single phase? 2:He said the ram needs cleaning up as it has a little surface rust, so what is the best way to remove the ram without a gantry crane? i realize it will be bloody difficult but i am not sure if the premises i will be moving into will have one or not. 3:is 1500 a good price? i am pretty sure it's good, but then i have never bought a Massey. 4:Are there any pictures about of what a Massey 2 CWT with slides looks like? or any similar self contained hammers? 5: what would be the cheapest yet safe way of moving it at my end? He has a telescopic handle and is fine with loading it up at his end, but i don't have nowt at my end. 6: are these good machines? I know for a fact that they are, and will go on forever, but, i wanted to know others personal experience and problems with them. 7:Any other information sites, on installing, maintaining and repairing massey's would be really helpful. He is giving me the orginial plans for the foundations so there shouldn't be much of a problem. 8:Finally, who in the uk would move it for a reasonable cost from the around the welsh border area, around Hereford i think, to Norfolk/ suffolk, i am currently looking for a premises around Norfolk Suffolk as well, so any pointers on buildings and locations would be greatly appreciated. Cheers for now, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I don't know anything about with slides Masseys, I am sure someone on here will be able to help. As far as transport goes use someone that is either at one end or the other or in line with the AtoB...not someone from Edinburgh or London! Safest way fro you to handle it is DON'T. It is why Hyabs were invented. An ex blacksmith that I use for installations, is Damon Bramley. He is based in the Forest of Dean has a good truck and is very skilled with his crane. He specialises in sculpture transport and installation. I can only recommend you get in touch with him, he meets and exceeds the criteria I invented! He also happens to be a great guitarist and singer in a rock band, and tell him I said hi! You are going to go and look at the hammer before committing to it aren't you. As you probably know there was a recent scam involving a 2cwt Massey perpetrated on eBay UK a few months ago. Do you know anybody around Hereford that you could take with you to see it? There are loads of blacksmiths in that county that did not seem to get very far away from the Hereford College where they did their training. Good luck with it. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstodds Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 Yeah i am going to go and see it hopefully in the next couple weeks. I am also buying it with a friend of mine from someone who we know and trust very well, and we actually asked him for advice on buying a different hammer and he offered us one of his power hammers.how much do you reckon it would cost for transport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 You guess is as good as mine. It will only take you a few phone calls. Check the round trip distance on Google maps so you can get some ball park figures. I paid £500 per day plus vat for a ten tonne truck with crane about 7 years ago. Around the same time I seem to remember that Damon priced his by a daily rate less than half that plus diesel rather than a flat rate. Last time we worked together it was to install a stainless steel flying saucer/gazebo/youth shelter that I made for a landscape artist friend and he paid the bill direct. You might look up one of the return run type sites on t'internet and put in a spec for someone to bid, we had a really good deal of bringing a trommel down from Yorkshire to Gloucestershire for barely the cost of the one way fuel. Just remember the need for a crane. Thirty odd years ago I paid £150 for a 3cwt hammer and £150 to have it transported home. Coincidently from the middle of Hereford. It was dumped in the yard and seven or eight years later I took advantage of having a crane for another project installation to move it from the yard to just out side the building site of the new forge and from there I moved it on rollers. I contemplated hiring a large telehandler or fork lift to lift the hammer over its anvil, but it was actually cheaper to buy a 5tonne chain block and some lengths of box section and make a gantry to do the job myself. The bonus being I still have the gantry and block in use.... Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 i would like to see photos. I have never heard of a 2cwt inslides massey, i know there are 2cwt clearspace hammers, and 1cwt, 3cwt and 7cwt inslides, but i am very prepared to be enlightened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstodds Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 That's what i thought, i have yet to come across one as well, are there any other companies that made self contained 2cwt hammers with slides? i will try and get pics as soon as poss, wont be speaking to him until wednesday unfortunatley so what is the best way to remove the ram since i havent got a crane? is there any way to remove it out the bottom? e.g. jack the ram up a bit from underneath, remove the stuffing gland and then lower the jack to remove the ram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Lots of Massey 2 cwt 'with slides' hammers out there. Not as fancied as the 1 cwt as the anvil is separate, thus you need a foundation for it. You have got no chance of getting a single phase motor to run it. The only way to get the tup off the piston rod on one of these, to disassemble it, is to have the hammer under power, and then use a dolly between the tup and top die block, then strike some blows to release the taper. I would avoid doing it at pretty well all costs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstodds Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 well the guy said the ram had surface rust and recomended removing the ram and cleaning it up, is there a better way to tackle this? Also, by Tup i assume you mean the block the top die is wedged into. Have you got any pics of any pics of a 2 CWT inslides massey or nknow of any websites where someone has restored one or installed one? just for refereence when it comes to moving this one. cheers, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Massey 2cwt with slides I know there are some more photos some where, and I second John, getting the tup off the rod is a difficult job, we have done it with hydraulic jacks and heating torches after having no luck with the dolly method. The dolly method works better when the hammer is larger. Better to polish it with emery paper where you can reach it, it is possible to unbolt the gland and let it slide down the rod allowing you access to all of the rod that goes through the packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 found the other photo, the guards on this hammer are a real pain, they were not made by anyone who was going to use the hammer. The guard over the tup basically does nothing except for get in the way, the bottom bar of it is right in your line of vision for the edge of the bottom die. The guard over the back piston rod needed some kind of gate/door in it so as you could get access to lube up all the bearings etc that need lubing there. The guard over the foot pedal was not easy to work with either, it was way too high and came out too far. Other than that this was a really nice hammer. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstodds Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 I forgot to mention, i now have photos and went to see the hammer. it looks a state i know, but it has had a tarp over it for the entire time it has been outisde. the tup is missing it's locking pin, and yes, looks a real ball ache to get off.the flywheel is seized and is also flat belt rather than a vee belt.no motor, and a whole load of vegetation, for £1500, what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 hmmn , kind of depends if you are looking for a project or "need" a 200 hammer or "want" a 200 hammer..... I would think 1500 is a little steep, mainly because of the potential risk of there being something wrong, worn out bores or broken valve body pretty much making it a non starter (financially speaking), If you have the will or cash or time anything can be sorted. By the time you find out if its in good shape (from pulling it apart) you will be into it by at least £2500 ,un less you are very lucky with a hiab firm. However you could open it up and find it all peach inside, they are pretty industrial pieces of kit. I would try and negotiate the price down, why not? by the time you install it the fact it cost £500 £1000 or £1500 wont make much difference as you will be in quite a few more grand. less is better though. what would 2X scrap price be? sorry I cant be more helpful, it kind of depends upon how much you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Its one of the very early models with the rotatory valve rather than the vertical shuttle valve, as such it is not in the same field as the later models, couple this with the fact it is flat belt drive and looks a bit like a project, I'd try to get the price down a bit. The flywheel being seized is not a real biggie, and the tup locking pin missing is no big deal, the later ones did not have them anyway, (just relied on the taper of the rod, Its hard enough to get the tupand rod apart anyway, let alone with a lock pin in it). Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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